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[Phoebe] Stealth Bombers

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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#141 - 2014-10-16 15:07:10 UTC
Cloaked ships will once again decloak each other if they come within 2km.

^

Terrible decision. I can't even fathom why you'd want to do this.

Not today spaghetti.
Willaev
The Fork
Clever Use of Neutral Toons
#142 - 2014-10-16 15:07:31 UTC
Nerf all cloaking instead of addressing the real issue. Because :CCP:
Arsine Mayhem
Doomheim
#143 - 2014-10-16 15:08:35 UTC
Fleet of 20 bombers warps into their target. 20 bombers land and decloak. Takes longer to align.

Epic game mechanics once again from fozzie.
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#144 - 2014-10-16 15:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
Queen ofPassion wrote:


As long as you cant "see" your cloaked fleet members, it's making an old awful bug a new feature.



I'm in complete agreement with you here. Unless we can actually see fleet members this makes bombing runs complete chaos for human players.. As previous stated, botting players won't have a problem with this.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#145 - 2014-10-16 15:10:20 UTC
1. Capital Void Bombs

A. For wormhole PvP, 4000 explosion radius is too much. Most capitals are 3000m long. As it stands you need about 10 hits to neut out an archon, which is more then 1 bombing run. And you cant target paint them. And you cant hit capitals while they are not triaged and moving. Seems you dont wish the bomb to be used in wormholes?

B. AoE 1 meter - most triaged capitals still drift a few meters per second for a minute, and can be bumped slightly all the time. Its not really nice to have to wait and wait for the capital to stop drifting. maybe AoE range of 500m is more appropriate, or make this thing not a bomb but some kind of super-torpedo that has no AoE but does not miss either. Actually super-neut torpedoes would be more interesting then capital void bombs :)

But anyways, I can allready see that as soon as these bombs come out, enemy fleet will bump their own archon a bit.

2. Decloaking

This is a massive nerf to all cloaked ships. I am not talking about bombers, I am talking about recons and T3s we use in wormholes. I would be fine with it if I could see cloaked fleet members nearby, but otherwise, no.

I would ask that you hold off on this nerf until you implement ability for fleet members to see each other cloaked first.
ulililillia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#146 - 2014-10-16 15:14:16 UTC
They think this is a huge nerf to iskboxer, but it's not, it's a big nerf to legit player bombing, while just being a minor inconvenience for iskboxers. This once again makes using iskboxer seem a lot better than having a bunch of real people show up and bomb with you.

CCP please, why
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#147 - 2014-10-16 15:14:31 UTC
Cloaked ships decloaking each other is a pain in the ass and it made for (and will again make for) *terrible* game play... If you could see where your fleets ships were that would be acceptable, but you can't, so no.
Kraschyn Thek'athor
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#148 - 2014-10-16 15:16:56 UTC
Analysis:
This nerf favors the CFC and weakens N3.
- The CFC is Subcapital heavy.
- Bombers with Anti-Cap-Void Bomb can operate rather freely without need of tight formation like for bomb runs.
- The Anti-Cap-Void Bomb is not good for a force that uses capitals, so N3.
- The faster reload for the bomb launcher is not to much helpful, since it takes longer to put the bombers into position.

The signature increase is bad for Solo-Bombers hunting ratters.

We will see again either magic hand bomberwings or the rare, specialised groups.






Question to the Devs.
Have you tried yourself these changes in organizing 50x Bombers with the developers?
Or is it again ccp-theorycraft?
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#149 - 2014-10-16 15:17:53 UTC
CCP,

are you aware that there are other ships that use cloaks besides ISBotted bombers?

You need to ban it, and not buff it with these changes.

Sbrodor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#150 - 2014-10-16 15:17:53 UTC
allowing to bomber to see each other in fleet is lore-oriented and may help real people to co-op.
i still think deployin some smartbomb on dominix will make them invulnerable to bomb but at least we have some small chance aganist others.

i will remmeber the old shoold bomber bar NOT had the limit of 6 bomb per run because bomb dont apply damage each others so at moment we are at the edge of collapse. the "old" decloack + new limit to 6 bomb + smartbomb + 12 sec flight time + antibomber bubblers + more sign + more align time allow only the use of gokus. i can accept to redirect to goku style but it is absolutily different gameplay (target pew pew, bcast rep) and in some way is the "usual" gameplay killing the different-way to play of steath bomber.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#151 - 2014-10-16 15:18:10 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
1. Capital Void Bombs

A. For wormhole PvP, 4000 explosion radius is too much. Most capitals are 3000m long. As it stands you need about 10 hits to neut out an archon, which is more then 1 bombing run. And you cant target paint them. And you cant hit capitals while they are not triaged and moving. Seems you dont wish the bomb to be used in wormholes?

B. AoE 1 meter - most triaged capitals still drift a few meters per second for a minute, and can be bumped slightly all the time. Its not really nice to have to wait and wait for the capital to stop drifting. maybe AoE range of 500m is more appropriate, or make this thing not a bomb but some kind of super-torpedo that has no AoE but does not miss either. Actually super-neut torpedoes would be more interesting then capital void bombs :)

But anyways, I can allready see that as soon as these bombs come out, enemy fleet will bump their own archon a bit.

2. Decloaking

This is a massive nerf to all cloaked ships. I am not talking about bombers, I am talking about recons and T3s we use in wormholes. I would be fine with it if I could see cloaked fleet members nearby, but otherwise, no.

I would ask that you hold off on this nerf until you implement ability for fleet members to see each other cloaked first.


I think it is because the bombs were intended to be used on suppers more than caps but that's just what i got from it.


and yes this does feel like they couldn't work out or be bothered with a way to enforce a ban on isboxer so they tried to nerf it. all they did was make it so isboxer is almost required to pull off bombing runs even if they made it so you could see other fleet members organizing a human bombing run is going to be almost un doable.

as for how this affects WH space CCP rarely even considers it, the few changes we got seemed to be things a few devs were working on in their spare time

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid
#152 - 2014-10-16 15:18:44 UTC
Yi Hyori wrote:
Anyway, so the fact that the decloak change has been confirmed, please take a moment to remember what CCP said when they implemented that change. The patch note said something along the lines of, "oh hey yea its a bug and we're finally fixing. npnp bros." and covert ops rejoiced for their cloaked ships decloaking each other was fixed.

Yup. Quoting patch notes for Crucible:
Quote:
Patch Notes for Crucible
2011-11-29 00:00
Patch notes for EVE Online: Crucible

-snip-
Fixes
-snip-

Modules

-snip-
Cloaked ships will no longer decloak other cloaked ships.
-snip-

So. Why do we have a global module change hiding under SB-only title?
Was it a bug back then?
It it was, are you reintroducing it, or has it stopped being a bug?
It it wasn't, well... Commit, mkay? :)
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#153 - 2014-10-16 15:20:25 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
Fleet of 20 bombers warps into their target. 20 bombers land and decloak. Takes longer to align.

Epic game mechanics once again from fozzie.


You mean a bad fleet of bombers that didn't bother to plan their run even a couple of minutes ahead of time and have a warp-through point set up, alleviating most if not all align time?

Epic fail from bad bomber wings.
Anthar Thebess
#154 - 2014-10-16 15:20:45 UTC
After some thoughts - this will heavily impact dreads.
While in siege they are just big sitting ducks.
Two of them will be hit the most :
- moros
- revelation

NO CAP:
- unable to jump out
- unable to fire.

Can we get some boost to those dreads, especially revelation?
Can we make all dreadnoughts similar?
No cap usage for capital guns?

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#155 - 2014-10-16 15:21:41 UTC
Benito Arias wrote:

It it wasn't, well... Commit, mkay? :)


Fozzie just did. He committed to reverting a previous change.

You should commit to learning to operate in the new environment.
Nys Cron
EVE University
Ivy League
#156 - 2014-10-16 15:23:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nys Cron
Cloakies decloaking other cloakies: This means that only mutliboxers will be able to coordinate bombing correctly, you are buffing mutliboxers which are seen as a problem by many and nerfing fleets of mutliple people. Maybe this is intentional.

Capital void bombs: You are introducing a mechanic that has no viable counter, there is no way for a triaged Carrier or sieged Dread to do anything against this. Normal neuts can be dealt with by applying EWAR or damage to them but this has no counter. I don't think this is fun gameplay and such mechanics should be in the game.

The void bombs seem fine against supers, maybe even make them stronger, but please don't introduce the ability for one multiboxer to alpha a carrier's cap without a possiblity to counter that.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#157 - 2014-10-16 15:23:46 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
After some thoughts - this will heavily impact dreads.
While in siege they are just big sitting ducks.
Two of them will be hit the most :
- moros
- revelation

NO CAP:
- unable to jump out
- unable to fire.

Can we get some boost to those dreads, especially revelation?
Can we make all dreadnoughts similar?
No cap usage for capital guns?




no to making dreads similar difference is what makes this game if you want capless guns use a dread that supports that

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
MASSADEATH
MASS A DEATH
Scumlords
#158 - 2014-10-16 15:24:26 UTC
Kraschyn Thek'athor wrote:




Question to the Devs.
Have you tried yourself these changes in organizing 50x Bombers with the developers?
Or is it again ccp-theorycraft?



EXACTLY!!!

have any of the devs ACTUALLY tried to get a few waves of bombing runs off in TIDI, with the battlefield littered with stuff, and 24+ pilots possibly DCing, and or running into crap, bubbles up everywhere and wrecks, and or being newbs...ITS LIKE HERDING CATS>>>like a vast herd of cats

its not easy to do at all.... its very hard as it is....

If the issue is ISOBOXERS(which always seem to get clean bomb runs off) then deal with that issue... but the organization to get 24+ individual players to get bombing runs off is a nightmare already
Lugh Crow-Slave
#159 - 2014-10-16 15:24:34 UTC
Nys Cron wrote:
Cloakies decloaking other cloakies: This means that only mutliboxers will be able to coordinate bombing correctly, you are buffing mutliboxers which are seen as a problem by many and nerfing fleets of mutliple people. Maybe this is intentional.

Capital void bombs: You are introducing a mechanic that has no viable counter, there is no way for a triaged Carrier or sieged Dread to do anything against this. Normal neuts can be dealt with by applying EWAR or damage to them but this has no counter. I don't think this is fun gameplay and such mechanics should be in the game.


with the changes to bomb speed a few smart bombs are your counter

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#160 - 2014-10-16 15:25:01 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
all they did was make it so isboxer is almost required to pull off bombing runs even if they made it so you could see other fleet members organizing a human bombing run is going to be almost un doable.


ISBoxer was never required to pull off bombing runs prior to the change in 2012. It will not be required now. Learn to organize, learn to voice comms, learn to use the features of the game client, and learn to research and read. Everything you ever wanted to know about planning and executing a bombing run under these "new" circumstances is available to be absorbed, because it has all been done before.