Player Features and Ideas Discussion

the ironing is delicious

"god its so easy, just pre-position tons of industrials, swap out after every single jb jump to an interceptor, take one gate, dock, swap back to an industrial, undock, use the jb, dock, swap back to an interceptor, undock, take one gate, dock, swap back to another prepositioned haulerm, undock, take the jb (whoops you used it before your 5m timer was up fatigue has started accumulating hard) dock, swap back to the prepositioned interceptor, undock..."

oh wait, the session changes

"god its so easy, just pre-position tons of industrials, swap out after every single jb jump to an interceptor, take one gate, dock *session change timer* swap back to an industrial,*session change timer* undock *session change timer* use the jb dock up *session change timer* swap back to an interceptor *session change timer* undock *session change timer* take one gate dock up *session change timer* swap back to another prepositioned hauler *session change timer* undock *session change timer*take the jb (whoops you used it before your 5m timer was up fatigue has started accumulating hard) dock up swap back to the prepositioned interceptor undock..."


god that's so easy compared to every system taking like five seconds in an interceptor man everyone is going to do it

just out of curiosity let us suppose the battle rorqual fleet was deployed

how long do you think we'd have to play around with it before it got nerfed :sun:

6 weeks?

Before I start with specifics:

The general intent here is to be as sure as possible that we achieve our goals over the long run, while placing as few limitations as possible. There are various ideas being thrown around, of varying degrees of plausibility, for circumventing these changes. Some may actually end up being practical, most probably won't. Rather than nerfing everything into the ground up front, we'd rather catch the really obvious stuff first and then see how the game plays out. You *can* HG-Ascendency a super to move it around, sure, but by the same token you *can* get an officer neut to fit on a Curse. We like it when people occasionally do weird, unexpected things with the tools we give them, but we step in when such cases become both common and counter to goals.

If any of these things become commonplace, we will very likely nerf them. Here's a list of things that have been up, some reasons as to why we're skeptical of their utility, and a sample of the sort of nerf we'd be likely to do to counter them:

- Setting up caches of ships and jump cloning to them
-- Difficulty and cost of setting up and maintaining caches of sufficient size and density
-- Limit jump clone usage furtehr
- Ascendancy capitals
-- Risks involved, rarity of key items
-- Reduce bonuses hyperspatial whatsamajigs give to supers
- Battle rorqual
-- Lots of cross-training for questionable value and the certainty that we'll nerf it anyway
-- Reduced/removed drone bonus
- T1 hauler redeployment
-- Risk of moving your whole fleet in T1 haulers, bridging or no
-- Nerf hauler fatigue bonus
- Using JFs to move your fleet
-- Requires everyone to train for and own a JF, requires you to fly round in an unescorted fleet of JFs
-- We're going to nerf JFs evenutally, if we have to tackle this in the meantime we'll think of something
- Blockade-runner/black ops fleet movement
-- Need to have BO stationed everywhere to pull it off
-- Nerf BR bonuses
- Roaming fast-warp carrier gangs
-- It's a gimmick, there's probably a good counter
-- Delete carriers from game (kidding, unfortunately, but we'll think of something)

Rational people wouldn't put all their eggs in one basket either but hey you guys just keep doing what you're doing. See that right there is the problem with you null bears, you are exactly the kind of people who expect easy, instant gratification...moving that kind of value, I.e. 35bil a piece, should never have anything but beyond impossible tagged to it. The fact that you can move that kind of value from highsec out to nullsec with such ease just validates the point that it should be significantly harder and put at significantly higher risk.


Here's a novel idea, given the size of freighters and the massive cargo hold of them, why not take into consideration all of the m3 of the contents being moved inside the freighter in addition to the freighters mass. It would make Titan bridging freighters or having them jump through a JB cost a about a billion in fuel.

It's rather ironic that you used the word "egg," because an egg is exactly what I meant by 35b -- the top tier outpost upgrade platform (the monument) is a single item that is 750k m^3 and costs 14.4b, and it looks like an egg when you deploy it in space. You have no choice but to use freighters to get this item into nullsec. You have to put all your egg (singular) into one basket in this case.

We've specifically avoided using the term "force projection" because it carries a lot of baggage with it. They're part of the changes because a) we want jump systems to work in a unified way, and b) we were originally of the opinion that this was a good opportunity to rein in their power too, which we've since changed our minds on. a) still stands, though.

this is dumb

the issue is there is no cost-effective way to get the materials locally (and for many materials, no way period). hence, the absolute necessity of importing materials

for a while null industry had no advantages that made it worth importing materials instead of just finished products since it was easier to build in empire, but that's now changed a little bit