Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Arguing with a goon is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory

CCP,

Although the now improved changes to JFs help this still is a bad move for EVE, most importantly because;


1. EVE is supposed to be a sandbox.

So since EVE is supposed to be a great sandbox the recent changes and your responses to players comments, EX "If battle Rorquals become a thing they will be nerfed". That defeats the entire purpose of a sandbox type of environment, you are saying if you don't play in the sandbox in a manner that I would play in the sandbox and; since I have the power to change things I will, so you are forced to play the way that I want to play. That's the entire point of a sandbox environment! If someone wants to spend time training the fly a ship, and then use it in a role it is not intended then they are free to do that, that's why a certain type of people enjoy a sandbox environment. That is also one of the things that makes EVE great the freedom to enjoy the MASSIVELY complex environment that has been created here. If you continue to punish people for doing things that YOU don't think should be done then they will leave and find a different way to spend their time. Some people want to fly battle badgers, battle rorquals, do their manufacturing in high sec and sell the product in Jita, as long as they are paying there subscriptions and happy to do those things then what is the problem?! You have said on multiple issues lately, (battle rors, industry distribution, etc) that is they don't change you will nerf the activity to force them to do something else. That will destroy one of the great aspects of this game and drive people away from it.


2. Null stagnation is a problem and these changes make it worse.

These changes make holding space MUCH easier and taking space MUCH harder. Since supers take MUCH longer to move for an offensive attack the defenders will be able to move more supers in much easier due to the fact that they are closer and it will be easier to defend space due to a lack of aggressive force projection to counter the defensive super drop. There is currently no counter to a super capital blob, except a BIGGER super capital blob, (that may be part of your grand master plan and if so you need to unveil this new super capital blob counter mechanic before you turn supers into 5LY moveable stations with bigs, and triage modules). The leaders of the major NULL sec entities drafted a letter together about fixing NULL stagnation with 3 ideas that instead of punishing current NULL sec dwellers; makes it easier for new groups to enter null sec space and harder for the current entities to hold it, you appear to have gone the other way with this new patch.


3. Fixing null industry is a MUST but with these changes if you make null sec independent you will kill high sec.

If null sec industry is fixed, (which it should be) and you continue to nerf JF down to 5 LYs as you stated in this thread you want to, people won't risk taking there products out to high sec to sell them when there is now a thriving industry and the market for raw materials that goes with that. People aren't going to risk there caps warping to a gate with billions in the hold to jump into high sec since they can't jump straight into high sec due to the distance between systems. They just sell them in null, prices for moon materials, morphite, and other materials which can only be found in null will skyrocket, advanced high sec manufacturing will disappear, and most pilots will only be able to afford to fly T1 and faction ships. Unless you make ALL materials available in ALL regions and security status space, separating the two will cause industry to evaporate. High sec needs null sec just as much as null sec needs high sec, if you make moving items between the two far to difficult then pilots will stop doing it.


4. These changes will make travel time MUCH greater and cause less content to be available

By applying jump fatigue, (especially to jump bridges which are suppose to be a advantage / reward of holding space) you are causing travel in general; not just to supers much more difficult and time consuming. Flying around space is something that all EVE players have to do, but not something that should be a major focus. People who want to PVP don't want to spend 55 minutes getting to a fight and still end up with a big jump fatigue timer, to only fight for 10 minutes and then turn around and go home, (unless you lose, then the trip home is much quicker). Logistics, traveling, and setup are all part of this game but if that becomes the major focus of everyones EVE experience then they will look elsewhere to find there entertainment.


By adding the jump fatigue timer instead of a static 4-5 minute cool down to ships that have a jump drive, and setting unnecessary limitations on pod expressing yourself; you are forcing people to spend less time enjoying the content that can be had in EVE and more time waiting for a cool down or taking 7 jumps around your own space instead of the JB that they installed in their home system.

see look at our competition

we are basically lebron playing one on one with the least fit kid at fatcamp

2. There is a very big difference between holding space and holding vast amounts of space. Yes it makes holding a small amount of space easier but it makes holding large amounts of space without sufficient manpower harder.


3. People don't seem to understand how markets work. It doesn't matter what CCP does - people in hi-sec demand goods from null and the price will continue to rise until it's worth while for people to make the trip. The only difference is that T2 items will cost more but I haven't heard a single hi-sec person complaining about that. We're not that fussed.

4. You cant nerf travel without nerfing travel. There is no way to make it harder to move long distances quickly while also making it easy for people to move long distances quickly. In fact - this is one of the criticisms of the haulage ships getting a reduction in fatigue. It's an relatively easy avenue for abuse of the new mechanic.

+1

I'm not trying to rock the boat, I'm glad that the JF isn't being nerfed as badly as originally planned.

However, using your own words why would you guys nerf the JF so badly if null industry is "already in too fragile of a place"?

We all know Mexallon has been a major issue to contend with in null-sec, and that if we're building in null Mex has to be imported because its rather scarce. There is a lot of movement of resources and ships/modules/ammo into null, and then there's moon goo export. And moving POS fuel to keep the jump bridges and moon mining operations running.

It's not like we're going to tell anyone, "Hey, I'm moving moon goo and fuel through three null-sec regions", because no one talks about what gets moved, or when it gets moved, or who moves, or who the cyno pilots are.

Again, you guys need to play this game a little bit more than just looking down from on high.

And I'm glad you guys listened. After the User Inventory fiasco where we told you it wasn't ready (honestly, it wasn't) and it was pushed regardless then failed miserably until it was fixed almost a year later ...... I wasn't sure anyone really took into consideration what the players were thinking.



But seriously .... you guys NEED to play, with real players, and not just develop this game.

Can't even believe someone gave you likes for this comment. At least 2 more idiots out there.

A Fleet can't camp a JB as effectively as gates. Yeah, which is why they split jump bridge connections to separate systems so whatever goes through a JB has to go through a gate to get to the next one. Either understand or be quiet because now you just sound silly. And for the record, I don't think opening up the potential for indies should be a thing. But man, please stop your horribad logic trip.

+1

Dont be surprised about it - you show a very clear disrespect of other peoples opinion. Name calling just dumped you down into kindergarden again. Too bad there isnt a dislike button yet

would one of the many idiots who think an industrial through jump bridges will ever be faster than a taxi interceptor post a video proving it

i look forward to the utter lack of videos as you discover an interceptor will always be faster in any reasonable situation