Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is an important point that some over zealous "but you need to kill the coalitions for me to succeeds" types don't understand at all.

The original set of super nerfs weren't (and still aren't ) going to do much to change the overall situation, because that situation doesn't exist because of game mechanics but rather because of human nature. Meanwhile, those same super nerfs would have blunted the ability of ANY non established group to move to or live in the one type of space (NPC null) that gives such groups a chance to dip a toe into the ocean. In other words, it would have the same effect that EVERY such nerf has: rather than create a better situation, it would have made the current situation worse than it is now because 'rich people' can adapt to change merely by throwing money at it while 'poor people' can't.



Being an outsider, I don't know what internal 'postmortem' review process CCP has for features and content modifications, but from here (again, admittedly from the outside) it doesn't seem to be very robust. in other words, it doesn't seem to me that CCP ever really asks themselves "why didn't this work", which would lead to figuring out what does actually work. This past devblog that I am fond of linking is a perfect case in point because of this section:



Yet the change (though reasonable sounding in the beginning) CREATED the 'renters desert' that is null sec today. A null sec of systems so crappy that only high sec groups that don't know any better would want to pay a bil or 2 per month to live there just so they can add the words "access to null space" on their corp adverts.

Some of us tried to explain that the above change wouldn't work because rather than "fight for better space", people would "fight for room in a friends carrier" to move their stuff back to empire where their isk making PVE alts could run high sec incursions and missions or low sec pve (a nerf doesn't work if there is an alternative that is just as good). When we did this we were told be player who thought this was a good idea that "you just don't want things to change for the better" and "you profit from the status quo".

We're experiencing the same thing again, which is why I've been bookmakring stuff like crazy, because at this point all we'll be able to do is post this very thread again in 6 months and then beg for actual understanding to occur.

And that, kids, is why the one thing the blocs are trying to save now is the Jump Freighter.

There's a reason people don't (usually) cheat in single player games. Having it harder can actually be a lot more fun. In eve for some reason the game has to slow down for the big, fat alliances, because their "quality of life" is more important than content generation and gameplay.

i have organized several freighter ops recently

i can assure you not one bit of fun was had by anyone in the game at all as part of those ops, either on our side or hostile

Another good example of the bad thinking I'm preaching against, mainly because it displays no willingness to entertain the idea that the changes could have made the "mittens" and "blue donuts" of the EVE world WORSE than they are right now.

At the very least, the 'loosening' of the jump range nerfs means that NPC null doesn't get the super shaft that was aimed at it.

people don't cheat in single player games that are miserable to do basic tasks in, they just stop playing them

the average highsec talking rock seems to be unaware of the difference between tedious and hard

hard is something that requires thinking, puzzle-solving, skills, or whatever

tedious is something that's just mindless misery

we like it when things are hard, because we're smarter than everyone else. we dislike it when things are tedious, because that's just unfun and boring and you don't get anything out of it

various things keep saying "eve is supposed to be hard!!!!" while not grasping that hard is not tedious, and that just making 0.0 more tedious does not make eve harder it makes eve shittier

The only raison of ccp to make this patch is for force us to make alot of toons for multiple staging so we dont need anymore projection force i just say bravo to ccp for that new direction to pay to win...

Le Monocle rit jaune !

+1

I don't know why people view the past with rose colored glasses. It's like all the people watching movies like Brave Heart and shows like Sparticus wishing they lived in those glorious times times of men being men because all they can see is the glory, not the death before age 30 from Cholera, plague and wisdom tooth extraction infections lol. No thanks, I'll stay in the nice sanitary but less manly present thank you very much.

Convoys SUCKED, which is why people begged CCP for YEARS for jump drives. Now people think Jump Drives are the enemy and want the convoys back, if CCP does that it will be a couple weeks before people go back to screaming for their jump drives again lol.

Oh I know. At the risk of sounding like a pessimist (side note, this means I'll live longer lol), given CCPs history I doubt knowing the plans will make that much of a difference...

You should ask that question to yourself, because the group of players that bring up false-pretense ~concerns~ with how the logistics and industry jump changes were readjusted so that null logistics can still work are almost exclusively Pandemic Legion players, a group known for having miniscule numbers and having traditionally relied on being able to project capital and supercapital ships throughout all of New Eden. It's awfully looking like here that you bunch are all aware that PL's claim to being relevant in null is getting burned to ground here through the combat capital jump nerf, which is almost unanimously seen as a necessary change. In response, it looks like your group is trying to salvage at least some amount of it's relevance by making sure that they would at least be geographically isolated from other null entities, which rely on numbers, organization and logistics instead of combat supercapital and capital projection, therefore making sure that your group can able to brace the storm despite all of your disadvantages.

Almost exclusively, your group of players claimed under this thread that somehow industrials would be used as shuttles, which is a hilariously silly idea that cannot work, as industrials are filmsy and unsurvivable, suspect to getting caught by bubbles, and better alternatives in the forum of travel interceptors without any vulnerabilies that can travel faster without bothering with any mechanics do exist.

Furthermore, in contrast with the self-serving agenda PL is trying to push here, responses to Greyscale's original set of proposed changes which rightly highlighted how those would kill null logistics in it's tracks, and damage EVE economy as a whole, were bipartisan and overwhelming in numbers.

Now, unless your group of players can't find a better and valid argument to be able to coerce the developers into making further changes to guarantee that PL can be isolated and able to make a difference with sub capitals, I suggest you stop reflecting your inability think for yourself and penchant for group think upon us, as by continuing to do so, you'll only be hindering your already diminishing credibility further.