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Yes jump freithers need 6ly distance if they have all skils at 5

Only 5 ly it's a very low

Here is a good tidbit from 2011, clearly showing that CCP Greyscale's obsession with the fantasy he has on null-sec is poorly thought:

"The harder we can make logistics, the better for the game viewed as an abstract system. It would be much better for the game if we got rid of freighters, but we have to balance what is good for the game at a higher systemic level with making the player's lives a living hell. Forcing people to do convoys with lots of industrials would, from a higher level systemic view, be awesome. But for the individual players, it would suck balls.

[CCP has] gone [too far] in the direction of making players lives easy – we've got jump freighters and jump bridges and all this [stuff] – and I think there is an agreement here [at CCP] that we want to pull back from that. We would like to pull back as far as we can get away with. But how far can we go?” The underlying point is the need to get a balance between avoiding frustration and getting desirable macro-scale outcomes.

--CCP Greyscale - CSM Minutes, December 2010

CCP Greyscale's nullsec wonderland is a highly dysfunctional, post-apocalyptic society that has suffered a major economic collapse. Cool to read about. Not a fun place to live unless you're the local strong man pissing all over the peasants. And even then....

As Dr. Eyjólfur might be able to explain to his game designer, robust economies require institutions that keep the means of production and transportation secure. CCP did not provide those institutions to nullsec, so the players have evolved them over time. Despite the insecure nature of nullsec, a player can move with relative safety within the boundaries of space with which his alliance has a non-aggression pact. Dangers are there, but the coalition works together to minimize them. This makes some nullsec coalitions a good place to do business. In fact an ongoing concern with lowsec is the tendency of non-PvP players to leap over lowsec, where space is nominally less dangerous but harder to control, directly to nullsec.

Take away the ability of nullsec players to provide those institutions and the producers and traders will leave nullsec for places where they can ply their trades. This is what happens when businesses can no longer operate in safety. Some brave souls will remain as high risk can result in high profits, however the local economies will become largely non-functional.

It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

If someone in the EU suggested that scenario were a desirable macro-scale outcome, I'm sure a few folk in Reykjavik might object."

Above part in italics is quoted from this blog post.

Well, CCP did not make logistics easy in the past. What CCP has done with including Jump Bridges, Jump Freighters and Freighters in game was increasing the quality of life for logistics players and for those who live in null, so that their lives were tenable. CCP had to do this to garner interest for it's miniscule amount of subscribers to live in null, and because their game was losing players. Now, at the present day, CCP management has made a terrible mistake and started to regard Greyscale as their bright idea fairy.

Basically, CCP gave a null sec working group to a developer who has no idea about economics, not just as a social science, but also as an abstract and isolated mechanic that applies to EVE markets. Look at Greyscale's surprised reactions in this thread. From "Oh, newbies use clone jumping?" to "T2 production was done before Jump Freighters, so I don't think jump fatigue will negatively impact T2 production" show that Greyscale has no idea about the dynamics regarding goods and production in EVE. (Yeah, say hello to a T2 cloak costing +100m ISK, just as it was before Jump Freighters, you genius!) This is a developer who is failing to show a basic understanding of the game he is attempting to change. This is a developer who is acting on the contrary to the idea that EVE is a sandbox MMO game. This is a developer that thinks EVE is a game that players need to dedicate their whole work days simply to be able to play the game in the sense that Greyscale thinks everyone should! This is a developer that thinks it is a good idea to introduce more artificial timers to EVE to slow down players, when in reality, it was the player base that was complaining about the artificial timers that game imposed on us all along!

And that developer is now proposing a change that not only will make nullsec uninhabitable except for better regions which have direct connections to empire, but will also negatively impact EVERY REGION in EVE because T2 production materials come from null.

What can I say? This will not end well for CCP.

They do not need to HOLD all. And if the enemy capital ships are deagroing at one side of the gate, you are INCOMPETENT if at least half your ships do not start deagro as well. The HICS willb e alone for 10 secodns if you are HALF competent pilot.

If you want to control/reduce force projection of Capitals and Super Capitals, then you need to be looking at the cyno because it's that, not the ships themselves that's the problem but rather the ease at which a cyno can get in to position to allow ships to jump. Apply an escalating mass based multiplier to cyno fuel so the bigger/more ships you want to move, the more fuel requirements are needed to do that. So a Titan needs more fuel than a Jump Freighter does.

A) You''ll need a bigger cyno ship to jump in a larger Capital.
B) You'll need multiple cynos to jump in a fleet.

Make the starting point what it is now (with skills) so that it doesn't harm individual ship travel, a gentle enough curve so that it will have a negligible effect on Black Ops but high enough so that it certainly makes force projection require more planning and certainly more difficult. Seems a more elegant solution to this "whack every jump drive with the nerf bat' approach of yours. You achieve exactly what you want to achieve now without destroying economies or annoying a sizeable proportion of the player base.

You misunderstand, this isn't capital pilots, it's most people who live in null or who fight in and around it and sov. People won't roam if they know that in 3 hours they have to react to a timer. This isn't the players fault, it's the nature of fighting over sov. This you can't pin on the blocs, this is the mechanics of the sandbox.

What about everyone is able to see the cyno - not only people in your fleet. I mean if you light a torch in the dark - your friends will find you - but who else?...

And what about allowing two-way travel? So you can fly from the cyno to the jump bridge generator? I think of jumpbridges and stargates as artificial wormholes - you bend space making the distance shorter. So you could use that shorcut in the other way too. The same way do warp drives bend space - but they are not that strong - so the distance is still farther. So adding travelling time to the jump and making a jump more like warp would make sense. Also that if you loose orientation (the torch/cyno) you can't travel further stopping at the next solar system makes sense.

... and you have risk. And what about higher jump fuel cost?

I think adding timers isn't a really elegant solution. And removing jump travel ... well there are jumpgates, so the technology is there, so why not let the players ues it...

That's a Roleplay perspective - I really can't say that I have gameplay experience with cynos.

And if ccp eventually develops procedual generation of solar systems, (since a lot of recent sci-fi games promise that, so maybe it becomes possible) then there has to be a way to establish a connection. So players need to be able to build jumpgates in a way. And instead of removing that feature now and have to discuss that topic then again - maybe plan for the future.

Oh, that was hilarious. Thank you for posting this here, wouldn't have known about it otherwise.

Also, can't wait to see it in-game!

Yeah, because this is what a player that's been around since the beginning will call fun. Just because you come up with a mechanincly plausable counter doesn't mean you're going to be able to convince some of your stooges to to gate camp Houla 23/7 for the next 4 years. I'm basing this on traffic drying up rather quickly if these are established.

The problem here is that there is no real fighting going on (for multiple reasons). No real fighting has led to pilots getting bored and not logging in. If you really think the bored not logging in pilots are suddenly going to find joy and fulfillment in camping HS/LS boundary systems.... you're just not getting it.

Folks are tired of being ordered by leadership to do dumb boring things for the benefit of said leadership. Supers camping the Houla gate comes under dumb and boring orders from leadership. In this case it wouldn't be poor mechanics driving folks out of the game, it would be dumb and boring orders from "leadership" driving people out of the game.

Seriously... get a clue as to what's really going on. You're losing your crappy boring empires because they are crappy and boring. It's related to game mechanics for sure, but it's also related to what "leadership" is ordering its rank and file (I think that's the nicest term I've seen you folks use) members to do in the name of empire maintenance.

A lot of folks are just losing interest and the blue bros can't see/accept/admit it's because the current null layout is boring.

Will laugh my arse out when ppl like you will settle down in null then big dogs will squeeze the **** outta you because you won't be able to reship, hahahahahahaha

WTF.. decide yourself. You say that you cannot hope to convince peopel to make activities that lead to a fight, but then say the problem is the lack of fights? What you want? Pre made matches of 15 vs 15? Then go play world of tanks.