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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Draahk Chimera
Supervillains
#5061 - 2014-10-03 08:12:23 UTC
1. Logistics. If you want to bring stuff too and from empire market hubs assemble an escort. Make "Empire runs" a weekly thing, instant content for a portion of your alliance as well as for the gankers in potentia.

2. Tech 2 prizes will skyrocket. Not necissarily. If a significant enough portion of the 0.0 alliances are unable to escort their freighters carrying the matierials to empire then an exactly equal portion will be unable to transport tech 2 to 0.0 and thus prizes drops due to less demand.

3. Drag bubbles will ruin my day while moving my carrier. Have your escort destroy the bubble or make a perch. You did bring an escort right?

4. I will be unable to run escalations more then 5 LY away. Use a battleship. If the dps is too high to tank in a bs bring a couple of friends in logis.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5062 - 2014-10-03 08:12:36 UTC
Eric Prinz wrote:
Duffyman wrote:
If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.

Low sec space have ~30-50% of global moon materials in eve. So it's no difference for hi-sec t2 production.


Best case is a 50% drop in supply and you think that wont change prices?
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5063 - 2014-10-03 08:12:43 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:

Hmmm... maybe, potentially. But then I also might end up with Ebola too? No telling what the future holds...

But trolling, me.. nah - I've posted conscientious material mainly, with some fun posts; but my thought process simply has evolved into... unsub is the only thing CCP pays attention to - so that will ultimately be my 'focus group' contribution along with others that are/will do the same.

Anyway please feel free to continue trolling for tears, as it's always entertaining when folks like yourself can actually get a rage out of someone.


No, at the end of the day you are right. All you can do is state your opinion and click that button.

I just find the melodrama and doomsaying hilarious based off of just the Dev Blog. You haven't even seen or tried this environment. (I know, you'll say "i don't need to")

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Polo Marco
Four Winds
#5064 - 2014-10-03 08:13:18 UTC
Lord TGR wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Polo Marco wrote:
Nothing will matter but the choke points. Whoever controls them will be able to control the game. The megas are well represented in the CSM. They all seem to be on board with this plan.

The megas are screaming bloody murder, in case you haven't noticed.

Not really, we seem well set to adapt to these changes.




At the time of that post I was not yet aware that they were claiming to have been ninja'd.

Eve teaches hard lessons. Don't blame the game for your own failures.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5065 - 2014-10-03 08:13:49 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.


Then why are you nerfing jump ranges so viciously?

travel range. no loner jumping over regions to regions far away. so the route you take now is different as well, by a healthy margin.


Which is to say that it has a huge impact on travel time. It's obviously a false statement by greyscale.
sure
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5066 - 2014-10-03 08:14:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Eric Prinz wrote:
Duffyman wrote:
If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.

Low sec space have ~30-50% of global moon materials in eve. So it's no difference for hi-sec t2 production.


Best case is a 50% drop in supply and you think that wont change prices?


It's a good thing supply isn't alone in his equation.

New meta modules are coming out.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Josef Djugashvilis
#5067 - 2014-10-03 08:15:25 UTC
Rudina wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Put bluntly, a lone new player has no business being in sov-nullsec. He should get with a corp. In a corp, not having a dude or two with a completed 3 month train is not an excuse.


So what you're saying is solo play is not allowed, what happened to the sandbox?


Solo play is allowed, but it has disadvantages, and so it should.

I am a solo player.

This is not a signature.
Alp Khan
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5068 - 2014-10-03 08:15:36 UTC
Innominate wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.


Then why are you nerfing jump ranges so viciously?

travel range. no loner jumping over regions to regions far away. so the route you take now is different as well, by a healthy margin.


Which is to say that it has a huge impact on travel time. It's obviously a false statement by greyscale.


Is anybody really surprised at this point that Greyscale seems blissfully clueless to how his ~genius ideas~ are going to affect the game negatively as a whole? Look at Greyscale's track record of making changes.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5069 - 2014-10-03 08:16:53 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Eric Prinz wrote:
Duffyman wrote:
If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.

Low sec space have ~30-50% of global moon materials in eve. So it's no difference for hi-sec t2 production.


Best case is a 50% drop in supply and you think that wont change prices?


It's a good thing supply isn't alone in his equation.

New meta modules are coming out.


That changes the situation with t2 ships how?
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#5070 - 2014-10-03 08:16:57 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
it's funny how ccp try to nerf big coalitions but do nothing about their HUGE income; as long as they keep their trillions/month income there is no way they will just decide to break their agreements.
way to miss your mark, ccp greyscale, but yea, i'm not even surprised ; wasn't you the one that put this terrible sov system in place ?
all that topics about sov, hundreds of pages, and all you colud came up with is nerf jfs;
you had what, years to think about a solution, and all you could answer after the first post was: " we don't know" , "maybe", we think it will work", we don't know", maybe", "we don't know", we don't know"...

p.s. one piece of advice: FOLLOW THE ******* MONEY!
Redwyne Vyruk
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5071 - 2014-10-03 08:17:51 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
Scud Maximillion wrote:
CCP, you have acted boldly and decisively. Many people want nothing more than to maintain the status quo. This game needed new life breathed into it, and that you have done. I am more excited about the future than ever. As the CEO of a corp of 80 real people, I pass along to you our collective thumbs up. Stay the course. You know what you have to do, and this is only the first of many needed changes. They will be painful to people but in the long term, essential for this game. The removal of death cloning was needed to avoid an obvious work around, as was applying the change to jump freighters (otherwise they will become a battle taxi and defeat the changes).

Be strong. You have our complete support.


+1


"battle taxi" made me laugh so hard...

btw, nothing to say about capital jump nerf, maybe a bit too nerfed but i always agreed on nerfing apex force, but the nerf on JF is something too massive, a lot of section of nullsec will collapse, hsec price on nullsec mins will increase far too much.JF pilots will stop doing their work and unsubscribe accounts, this is no sense
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#5072 - 2014-10-03 08:18:04 UTC
beaconBoy SavesTheDay wrote:
JF get a speed limit of 1 LY per minute

I realize most comments in this thread discuss null sec, capital ships and power projection. All of these game mechanics are going to be affected profoundly. But for a moment, let's dive deep into the topic of logistics and jump freighters.

My courier corp saves you time, and let's you play Eve without spending precious hours on logistics. On the average, I move over a dozen contracts to the far reaches of low sec every day. Most of these contracts involve 2 cyno hops to make the delivery, and often another 2 cyno hops as part of the return trip. But all of this may stop....pause for drama...

Only a couple comments in this thread go into the details of how a hauler will be affected. Today, to complete a contract, I'll spend 20 to 30 minutes, and I'll do this for 4 to 6 hours a day. But with the suggested changes, the time to complete a contract increase to a minimum of 45 minutes per contract. Probably more like an hour since suicide med clones are going away.

If I move cargo any faster, I'll quickly see fatigue build up and my cool down time increase to an hour or two per cyno hop for the next contract?!

After running several scenarios involving 5 or 10 deliveries per day over a distance of 20 LY (plus the return trip) on spreadsheets, I've come to the conclusion that if the Eve Community wants their cargo moved, one simple changes has to be made. Instead of JF's effective distance being reduced to 10%, it needs to be reduced to 5% of the actual distance.

Tell your CSM rep...."JF NEED A 95% REDUCTION IN EFFECTIVE RANGE"!!!

Otherwise, all JF pilots effectively have a 1LY per minute speed limit, and will charge accordingly. In my case, I bring in 150M and 200M per hour of hauling. So instead of a flat rate pricing, shipping rates will be closer to 10M per LY for any trip beyond a simple one cyno hop trip. Contract times will also have to accommodate just how much all the JF pilots together can collectively do given their combined "jump fatigue" if there's a surge in customer contracts at any point in time. So every contract may have to be 14 day expire and 14 day complete just to play it safe.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5073 - 2014-10-03 08:18:52 UTC
gascanu wrote:
it's funny how ccp try to nerf big coalitions but do nothing about their HUGE income; as long as they keep they trillions/month income there is no way they will just decide to break their agreements.
way to miss your mark, ccp greyscale, but yea, i'm not even surprised ; i wasn't you the one that put this terrible sov system in place ? all that topics about sov, hundreds of pages, and all you colud came up with is nerf jfs;

p.s. one piece of advice: FOLLOW THE ******* MONEY!


So nerf high sec?
Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5074 - 2014-10-03 08:19:05 UTC
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Jump length distance has almost no impact on travel time, number of midpoints is largely irrelevant to travel time when fatigue is a factor.


Then why are you nerfing jump ranges so viciously?

Creating more chokepoints would be my immediate guess.
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5075 - 2014-10-03 08:19:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

That changes the situation with t2 ships how?


t2 ships are already ridiculously astronomical and the movement volumes in highsec are very low

It's silly to think we should balance projection around a niche issue like that that can be addressed on it's own terms.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#5076 - 2014-10-03 08:20:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

So nerf high sec?


OH BURN

Roll

Let me tell you about all my R64s and renters I'm making passive bank on in highsec.

"The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain."
CA Ambraelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5077 - 2014-10-03 08:20:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CA Ambraelle
Why not remove jump drives in general?
This is a serious proposal!

Coming from the perspective of a logistics pilot initially pissed by the nervs to jf I now think that completely removing jump drives would be a much less hurting solution than this 5 ly max range limit and jump fatigue math.

With these changes we will have the fact that doing logistics with jf will be a pain in the ass.
Compared to that doing logistics with normal freighters through gates will be much smoother and ... well maybe even fun :)
But still having the temptation of a (would-be) save transportation method via jf will most probably induce me to do the boring stuff ruining my own gameplay fun.
Thus having jump drives removed entirely feels somewhat like a relief compared to the currently by ccp proposed solution.

Maybe instead of giving jump drives to the tech II freighters give them bonuses that give them a realistic chance to escape at least smaller gate camps (stronger warp cores, bubble immunity, maybe cloaking).

Similar thoughts also apply to capitals in my opinion.

I personally like the following thoughts:
- remove all jump drives
- allow capitals to jump through gates - except titans!
- make titans maybe even more powerful but make them pure mobile defense platforms that are built in a system to defend it and are not able to leave the system at all (they are too big to fit through the gates!).
- allow titans to still open jump portals for other ships (but not themselves)
- retain the covert jump portal generators for black ops ships as they are
- remove cynos from the game - both jump portal generators will be able to open a portal to any system within range
- introduce a 24 hour cooldown timer for any pilot who jumped through a jump portal (no complicated math)

Radical ideas I know, but think of them for some time before flaming.
Would love to hear your opinion on these ideas, CCP Greyscale :)
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#5078 - 2014-10-03 08:21:48 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
A lot of people really need to ask, who will these changes hurt the most? I'll give you a hint: It's not groups like CFC, PL or N3, who have the manpower & resources to work our way completely around this.


Why would the changes "hurt" anyone? That's not their intent or purpose.

It will change the way people move capitals around.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5079 - 2014-10-03 08:22:19 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

That changes the situation with t2 ships how?


t2 ships are already ridiculously astronomical and the movement volumes in highsec are very low

It's silly to think we should balance projection around a niche issue like that that can be addressed on it's own terms.


You can nerf the combat ships without torching the JF. Simple fact here is prices will go up and the smaller powers that need the help in null will wind us not being able to keep themselves supplied if you nerf the JF like this. We will survive but this is what is going to happen.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#5080 - 2014-10-03 08:24:03 UTC
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

So nerf high sec?


OH BURN

Roll

Let me tell you about all my R64s and renters I'm making passive bank on in highsec.


Moons supply less isk than an ice miner per month.

Renters make us a lot of isk but we make massive amounts in high sec.