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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

First post First post First post
Author
Kaitlynne Grayson
the 57th Overlanders Brigade
#5021 - 2014-10-03 07:14:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kaitlynne Grayson wrote:
So let's change things up a bit. Belts deplete, asteroids get mined out. So why not do the same with resource moons?


Why? The generate around the same as a single ice miner per month.



It was merely an example. Whatever it takes to make space valuable, shift it around. Make larger entities *want* to come out of their fortresses or risk their income. If the surrounding space around them becomes valuable and populated with small groups, then we've done something right. If they decide to try and annex these groups and deploy long-range drops that have been repelled, we've done something right. If those smaller groups decide to band together and grow together instead of joining the giant existing block, we've done something right.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5022 - 2014-10-03 07:18:17 UTC
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)



Sorry m8 - confirming that JF's will be able to jump farther than "5 a.u." in Phoebe...


Sorry to hurt your feelings :(

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
RONA Directorate
#5023 - 2014-10-03 07:20:02 UTC
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)




You do realize most systems are bigger than 5 a.u right?


Hell its 1 a.u. from the Earth to the sun.


Just sayin.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5024 - 2014-10-03 07:21:21 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)




You do realize most systems are bigger than 5 a.u right?


Hell its 1 a.u. from the Earth to the sun.


Just sayin.




SHHHHHHH you're spoiling it for everyone!!!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Kaitlynne Grayson
the 57th Overlanders Brigade
#5025 - 2014-10-03 07:23:41 UTC
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)



That would be a valid point. I'd love to see development in nullsec, I think most nullsec dwellers would agree to that. But right now, nullsec does not have the tools to *be* self-sufficient. It relies on low end materials to be shipped in from hisec, because they simply do not exist in sufficient quantities in null. Likewise, hisec depends on high-end materials from null, because they don't exist in highsec.

It makes sense if you think about it, from an overall economic point of view. It forces the two to interact with each other for mutual economic sustainability and stability. It links the game together that we play, instead of having two isolated bastions.

Of course, I'd also love to see a narrative where nullsec schizm away from highsec and becomes slowly more self-sufficient, maybe as CCP begins seeding ores for us to do so, at which point we could finally have that entire Empire vs. Capsuller conflict that they've been running for a while now to come to a point. It would be...epic.

But I foresee a long-term problem with that in that it introduces a segregation in the game, or rather, exacerbates an already existing schizm. We already have a whole highsec vs. nullsec mentality going on. We interact and coexist because we *need* each other. If we became fully self-sufficient in null, then we wouldn't need highsec. If highsec became fully self-sufficient, it wouldn't need nullsec.

Nullsec has an intrinsic advantage if that comes to be true, because we've been out here waging sov warfare and stockpiling caps for years, while highsec has not been afforded that luxury, so the only force they have manning the proverbial gate with capitals is...Chribba.

It'll be a losing war, and no matter how many people say getting rid of highsec would be a good thing, it's a way of playing the game in this sandbox. As people are so fond of saying: it's a sandbox. Just because you don't agree with the way they're playing doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to. They're paying for this game as much as you are.

Also, highsec is a nice reprieve from politics, for meeting friends, being...casual. Not that second job that's constant CTAs, alliance or corp ops, or even alliance logistics. We play to have fun. Gank if you want. Hotdrop if you want. Run freight if you want, whatever floats your boat. It's also a nice, relatively safe place for new players to start out and learn the game mechanics.

Highsec does have its value, just as nullsec does, just like lowsec. We all enjoy different things. It's a sandbox...shouldn't there be different things for us to do?
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5026 - 2014-10-03 07:24:42 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
...

I will of course be training up all my alts to fly carriers and dreads just so I can take full advantage of long range hot drops. ^_^



Hmmm someone missed the memo... "long range hot drops" ~ beautiful... please post moar!!

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Seth Kanan
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
#5027 - 2014-10-03 07:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Seth Kanan
These changes will be good for eve. More people and more smaller groups will go to sov-space because they will be able to hold a system and get their share of the game. The neighborhoods will be more populated and dynamic. The ecosystem and political landscape will get far more interesting. The renting will hopefully stop - its an impudence to the players and the game and makes sov space a dead space. Me and my mates are looking forward to this.
Aloh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5028 - 2014-10-03 07:31:25 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Aloh wrote:
CCP why are you working so hard at keeping me from playing the game?

Aloh, with these changes, there'd be a much larger focus on industry in nullsec. You wouldn't be hauling, you'd be building.Big smile

Say you want to build a marauder: you only need to import ~3000m3 of T2 mats. That's a cakewalk compared to hauling the entire marauder from Jita, now.


Potato dude we did this in TS.
It will not do that as ...

My industry alt was only subbed to get him and his stuff out of null and back into low sec.

And more to the point
B It will not do that because to import all the stuff will take WEEKS to get from where it is harvested to where I need it.
People are not going to bother except for the large alliances who clear a lane to their capitol areas in advance.
And run the stuff out in freighter alts tossed by titans.

Small corps will have to have individual pilots jump their own stuff out every time.
When we deployed just now to shoot goons some more the people moving stuff made.... 25 to 30 jumps hauling other peoples
stuff. Our 2ed in command first and foremost among us. How much use would that character be for months after this change goes in? NONE.

So should all players that don't have a carrier be barred from null?
Do you really think I could keep up with the rate we go through ships?
You are not going to have T2 production or even T3 production.
Get used to flying T1 ships is all I am going to say.

The only thing this is going to do is cast the blue doughnut in concrete and make it permanent.
In other forums goon leadership has already said that it is not going to affect them as they have lanes open to high sec.

So once again we hurt the little guys and make the big guys harder to unseat.....
At least it can be fun shooting goons once in a while.
Duffyman
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5029 - 2014-10-03 07:32:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Eric Prinz wrote:
I love this Dev Blog.
I hope you will not allow JF to jump (in the future) more than 5 a.u. It gives meaning to develop local production in null-sec (instead of delivery of the entire market from Jita)


I hope you like paying a high price for t2 gearBlink


I don't think he knows where the stuff to make t2 mods/ships come from. If null sec doesn't export moon goo to Jita (and uses it all for local production), there will be no T2 mods for High Sec.
Luscius Uta
#5030 - 2014-10-03 07:34:22 UTC
After reading in a public channel that caps will be able to use stargates, I thought I was being trolled, either by the person who typed the message, or by CCP Fozzie, the only person in CCP crazy enough to come up with such a terrible idea. But after reading the devblog, I think that most suggested changes are good (and certainly far better than idiocy like mass-based wormhole spawn distances). Also, PL tears are the most delicious ones, so extra props to Greyscale for being able to give us more of such prized and rare artifacts (as well as for choosing the name for the example Archon pilot).

However there should be a way to reduce possibilty for groups like PL to hotdrop all over New Eden without killing 0.0 logistic supply lines.This means that giving reduced cooldown timer to Jump Freighters is good, but also not enough as they also need increased range. Giving the same reduced cooldown to Rorquals looks a bit more controversial since Rorqual could become the favourite ship to hotdrop with after these changes.

Black Ops should increase fatigue at reduced rate, though say 0.75 instead of 0.1, since it's comparatively a lot more faster and secure to move them through stargates than it's the case with capital ships and we don't want to encourage people to move Black Ops through stargates as that isn't their intended use. Giving a cap to cooldown timer sounds like a good idea, as well as introducing a new skill (with a high, x8 or even greater training multiplier) that would increase jump fatigue decay rate.

I can't comment changes on medical clones, as I never lived in 0.0 and the only other stations I'm offered when I try to change my medclone are some for me useless stations belonging to my starter NPC corp.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Lord TGR
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5031 - 2014-10-03 07:35:45 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:

That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.


Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed?

Given that the players decide what goals to pursue and how, yes. I think it's entirely appropriate to do so.



This. I keep hearing well its the mechanics that make and allow us to do it. Just because the rules/mechanics allow(ed) it doesn't mean you have to say well lets push it till it breaks.


Funny, hopefully, rl analogy. Let's say you have a good other half (gf/bf. wife/husband). So good they say if you just want to go out with your friends anytime go ahead.

If you use this free pass once in while its all good. Its when you using a lot....that other half starts to change their stance on this. They kind of want you spending time with them at least occasionally.

Call it a trap, sometimes when they say yes, it means I am seeing you if you to the right thing I really want you to do and show some restraint.



Applied to eve. Eve gave the convenience of open jumping around. And some/many abused this. we are being roamed by bc's and hacs what do we do.....hot drop them of course. Or others roaming with the caps and supers for dynamite fishing trips.

Current and soon to be gone way made this possible. Just blinked through 3 systems to do whatever (fish or pve) and if you got the gas, blink 3 more times.


New system....some time added to this. Some may have to, gasp, use gates. this may have been avoided if the hot drop button was not pressed so much. Yes the mechanics allowed it. Didn't mean they had to use it every damn time though.

Another real life anaiogy. My boss knows we don't nickel and dime on OT/comptime. something goes to 10 minutes past official end of day, we tend to not submit requests for compensation for this small crap. He also does not go ape crap when we come in 5 minutes late in the morning, or from lunch from time to time. Now if I pushed this and came in late all the time....now we'd have a problem.

The flaw of this analogy is that the rules you point out in RL aren't absolute, and breaking them isn't done "to win", whereas the rules in EVE are absolute, and pushing as hard as you can against them is necessary "to win". And guess what, this is a competition, and in a competition you do what you can "to win".

CCP have made rules which not only allows, but actively encourages what we've come up with, "to win". It's not the most fun, but we've we've put our name on the map, we're reaping the rewards, and we've "won". The oneous is on CCP to change the rules so what's allowed, and what's actively encouraged to do "to win", also turns out to be "fun". It's their game, it's their responsibility, and pretending it's actually the gamers' fault for utilizing the rules to the maximum is what the losers say to themselves (and others) to justify why they aren't the ones at the top.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5032 - 2014-10-03 07:36:17 UTC
so anyone worried about the inevitable wrecking ball of carrier roams that are bound to happen?
Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
#5033 - 2014-10-03 07:36:18 UTC
't was about time!

Probably the best non-API related devblog I've ever read since I started playing EVE back in 2006. There's this itching urge to resub my main combat toon again.

It's also telling that a lot of unsubed and presumingly long-gone bittervets have crawled out of the wood and started posting on forums again, to express their excitement about this change.

Many thanks to the Nullsec Working Group and kudos for having the guts to come up with this drastic change. Much appreciated! Big smile

EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager.

Aloh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5034 - 2014-10-03 07:37:31 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Aloh wrote:
CCP why are you working so hard at keeping me from playing the game?

If you read the Mittani you'll know that they are going to add a bunch of Null 0.0 systems that will make your logistics burden much easier. So if I were you guys I'd start suggesting some new regions like a Null 0.0 region that is between Querious and Catch and connects low sec to Stain. Tell them to make it low sec so that it'll be easier to get your JF's and blockade runners through. Lots of stations in each system (harder to camp a single station), with factories.


No no and NO!

X Gallentius wrote:
If you read the Mittani you'll know that they are going to add a bunch of Null 0.0 systems that will make your logistics burden much easier.


The null systems will only make it easier for the large alliances to stay in power.
They are perfect capitol stashing points. So the nurf will have no effect on them at all.
And no it won't be easier.
Right now my logi alt undocks from jita and jumps to low sec.
And then jumps from there to our current home system.

After this change goes through there will be more jumps I have to do each way and I will build up one hell of a lot of down time doing it. How exactly does this make it easier for me?
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5035 - 2014-10-03 07:38:31 UTC
You know some words and phrases from CCP Greyscales devblog really eat at me:

"...we would anticipate..."

"This seems likely to ..."

"... ,we see the potential for..."

"... it seems plausible that..."

"... , but we don't want to make any firm predictions in this area."


Is it just me, or does this type of language really bother anyone else regarding such an important change?

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Bobbyd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5036 - 2014-10-03 07:39:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Bobbyd
I feel this is a step backwards for eve,
There are a lot of cap pilots that enjoy using our capitals. this will essentially take a large potion of fun out of null sec. and if the game isn't fun any more then what are we left with,

Logistics isn't fun, and with 5 LY range plus cant death clone cyno alts ( need double the cynos now) this makes a boring job unbearable. why play in null?

I kind of understand the reasoning behind the changes but think maybe a set 10 min jump cooldown would of been enough(same time and a conventional cyno), and maybe carriers/supers and titans get the same jump range as current titans, (witch is already a pain) and JFer and rorquals stay at there already low 11Ly

I read in the Blog about some dude jumps 17 Ly sees he has a 2 hour cool down and then for some reason thinks its a great idea to jump 40 gates in null sec in an archon solo, most null sec guys will know its not a great idea to jump gate to gate in null sec, bubbles and all. so I think its unrealistic to think it would take 2 min per system, also with large coalitions most prob dropping large potions of SOV they cant defend this will make it 40 gates of hostile null sec

Man I read that and my first thought was are the Devs really that out of touch with the game there determined to ruin? do they even play eve like there player base does,


If these changes that the Devs propose actually make it to TQ I will be unsubbing my 7 accounts and no longer buying plex for spaceships,

-$2000 per year to CCP from me.
Shivaja
CHON
THE R0NIN
#5037 - 2014-10-03 07:41:21 UTC
OK massive massive discussion don't know if any one else did not point out this already but anyway here are my two cents.
IMHO the intended effect that CCP hopes for will not come to be, instead what will happen is that the power blocks will sit over the galaxy map draw projection circles on the map and then theirs pilots put jump clones and stash of capital ships in the middle of each circle ! and tadaaaa we are in the same **** as before only with insane number of capital ships laying around and collecting dust Cool
Anthar Thebess
#5038 - 2014-10-03 07:46:08 UTC
As for BO changes.
Stuff that CCP have to take into consideration :
- possibility of moving large amount Tech 3 cruisers , that will refit them self after arriving near the target.
- fleets of SOE cruisers that can also abuse BO bridging .

So you can move 90% of your fleet by BO, while having only small amount of Logi capable alts seeded around EVE.

At the same time BO cannot get full nerf.
They generate fun for most of the sides - without thread from them most of the regions will become ratting havens.

My suggestion :
- BO ( bs ) will not get any side effect while bridging it will get half or current level of fatigue while jumping.
- Recons / bombers will get Fatigue level similar to JF
- SOE cruisers will get 1/3 of fatigue while jumping
- Tech 3 hulls will get full fatigue

Make this fatigue hull based reduction.

I would also reconsider changes to the fatigue dreadnought hull is getting.
This is specific hull type , it was never an issue that dreadnoughts are OP , they are vulnerable while in siege , and without siege they are worthless.
Gun based dreads will have big issue hitting most of the moving targets.

My suggestion , temporarily make dread to get the same fatigue like JF.
There are large amount of grinding in upcoming winter , and those dreads will speed this up a bit.
Still if this can be an issue - i have no objection for putting them in the same line like other capital ships.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
#5039 - 2014-10-03 07:47:22 UTC
Shivaja wrote:
OK massive massive discussion don't know if any one else did not point out this already but anyway here are my two cents.
IMHO the intended effect that CCP hopes for will not come to be, instead what will happen is that the power blocks will sit over the galaxy map draw projection circles on the map and then theirs pilots put jump clones and stash of capital ships in the middle of each circle ! and tadaaaa we are in the same **** as before only with insane number of capital ships laying around and collecting dust Cool



Yep! A variable Sykes Picot agreement among the major Coalitions.

The sophistication of the EVE player/Null Sec Diplomat should never be underestimated - and if B0ttLord Accords can be executed, then the Coalitions carving up Null sec is easy - and will totally frustrate Yar! Captain Neckbeard will save yer game! approach.

Man I can't wait to see if that actually plays out! I will so lol @ CCP Greyscale and Co.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Armagast Sin Truth
Blackstone and Fairfield Transuniversal
Sentinels of Sukanan Alliance
#5040 - 2014-10-03 07:48:50 UTC
Given that the only limit on the ship is the 5 lightyear jump range -- why not just have the fatigued pilot swap out with a fresh pilot and continue jumping immediatly?

That way you still get there much faster than someone trying to get to the fight all by themselves.

Or does the fatigue get transferred to the new pilot - even tho he is not the one who made the previous jumps?