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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#4481 - 2014-10-02 23:34:33 UTC
ugly inside wrote:
my group bases out of a high sec island surrounded by lowsec and we arnt near a trade hub.. we do just fine using t2 indys to run our cargo around.. it has me nerv racked going through systems with a dozen guys that are confirmed wanting to kill us.. but we manage..

i kinda like this new patch.. if you want to feel the real value of your cargo hold.. fly it around in space.. like the guys with plex in their cargo hold did.. 20$-1800$ thrown away while flying around with their cargo.

now dont get me wrong.. we use a rorqual and we dont mine local cuz every1 knows you dont $#!T where you eat unless you a bear. and this change WILL make our ninja mining ops a little more of a hassel.. anyone who catches wind of where we currently mine will know that a rorqual comes and goes and now that means we need to setup a base to hide inside and we gotta bring water to the slaves who row the oars of the jump drive..

but i digress.. in the end a change is coming and we must adapt or see what we built die off.
and by death i mean either we fall back and change the plan.. or we fall outta eve and check out that new game S.C... u know


Go to null, deal with bubbles, check opinion again
SSG Keeper
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4482 - 2014-10-02 23:35:40 UTC
This is a very easy fix:

Go with all the changes you made in this upcoming patch, but give supers, titans , dreads and carriers capital warp drives so they can fly as fast as a crow.
Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
#4483 - 2014-10-02 23:35:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Aerich e'Kieron
Jeyz Vega wrote:
There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.


Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone.
In fact, almost everything being introduced here is a positive for EVE as a whole.
Almost every single "negative" or "con" that people have been posting about, have been the CAUSES of huge portions of the stuff currently broken and stagnating in null-sec and EVE.

The problem here is that people see these changes about to be made and think to themselves:
"Yeah, null sec is so stagnant, force projection is a real issue we need to fix. But if they change it I don't want it to effect me in any way or give me any limitations or inability to continue to act and play the game the exact same way I currently am, clearly."

All kinds of people saying that these changes are "too harsh", that these are "heavy handed"..
Then what? Yeah, lets just reduce the max jump range on every cap ship by 1ly and that will fix force projection and solve the blue donut. That's gonna work.

Basically, you can't just give the issue a "slight nudge" or a "minor tap" in the right direction. It will solve nothing. People will continue the play the game the exact same way they are now, and it will just make it more of a pain in the a**.
To make ACTUAL change, you have to be extreme and make a change that not only makes it undesirable to continue playing the current way, but impractical, or even impossible.

It's almost as if these people don't want to fix force projection, naps, etc. They could even have a vested interested in maintaining the current system! Shocked

But I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut. I must just be putting too much thought into it.


Do I actually have the say it?
You can't change the game-play and have it not effect your game-play.

The times are changing, roll with it.
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#4484 - 2014-10-02 23:36:08 UTC
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent.


Starting with the AF changes CCP have continuously ignored all player feedback. Feedback that warned them about the negative repercussions, and eventually came to pass.

The only exception was Greed is Good and the Gold Magnate. Neither of which dealt with gameplay per se.
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#4485 - 2014-10-02 23:38:00 UTC
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:
Jeyz Vega wrote:
There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.


Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular.
The time are changing, roll with it.

How about the traders that go to null to sell things?
How about the people who work at black frog and pushX?
What about the indy guys?
Tell me more about it hurts no one...
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4486 - 2014-10-02 23:38:05 UTC
Polo Marco wrote:

If you really want to stop the megacorps you have to make them unprofitable. Many of these 'nullbears' pay billions per month. You're not going to stop that by roaming through twice a week shooting up the place. the only content you provide by doing this is amusement from the locals and a break in boredom for the on call response fleets who are so bored they will hot drop a fly on the windowpane just for something to do.

I disagree. Isk is not a valid mechanism for balancing things, not for large scale issues. We've seen time and time again that the top groups will find a way to work around such limitations, in ways and with a speed CCP cannot predict.

Time and effort are the only things that work as limiting factors in a game like this.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4487 - 2014-10-02 23:38:39 UTC
Marian Devers wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent.


Starting with the AF changes CCP have continuously ignored all player feedback. Feedback that warned them about the negative repercussions, and eventually came to pass.

The only exception was Greed is Good and the Gold Magnate. Neither of which dealt with gameplay per se.

Did you miss the part where, in this very thread, they addressed the potential New Player Experience issue with podjumping by allowing new players to podjump? The change that was directly related to feedback?

I guess if you ignore all feedback but the kind you agree with, your statement is true.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4488 - 2014-10-02 23:39:05 UTC
Arsine Mayhem wrote:
smokeydapot wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Obsidian Hawk wrote:
Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on.


You're new here aren't you.


Aahh the optimistic noob I remember the day when I was one of them, It was a sunny Saturday afternoon and....................


You're the problem N3, just bio and game fixt.

Ah the blame game. Honestly, who gives a ****? We are where we are. I believe even the most bitter and angry will find themselves is a happier place once the changes happen. Sure there will be growing pains, but EVE needs this change if it hopes to return to greatness.
Demetri Slavic
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#4489 - 2014-10-02 23:40:02 UTC
As a leader in a Merc alliance, Im interested if the nerf to the ability to move large quantities of Rigged Ships is intended.

Combat wise, I love these changes. But trying to figure out how long it will take to move 30million m3 of rigged ships 30LY with 10 carriers makes me cry.

EVE_NT London Organiser

https://www.facebook.com/EVELondonMeets

@EVELondonMeets

Next Meet: November 18th 2017
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4490 - 2014-10-02 23:40:14 UTC
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:
Jeyz Vega wrote:
There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.


Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular.
The time are changing, roll with it.

How about the traders that go to null to sell things?
How about the people who work at black frog and pushX?
What about the indy guys?
Tell me more about it hurts no one...

1. They make more isk, since there will be fewer willing to make the effort.
2. They make more isk, since their jump timers have value they can charge for.
3. They make more isk, since they can pass on their increased costs to their customers at a reasonable markup.

Seems like good things to me...

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4491 - 2014-10-02 23:41:19 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:

Ah the blame game. Honestly, who gives a ****? We are where we are. I believe even the most bitter and angry will find themselves is a happier place once the changes happen. Sure there will be growing pains, but EVE needs this change if it hopes to return to greatness.


I was just asking about you, whether you had weighed in. I am only haldway through the threadnaught (reading everything takes time)

Glad to see you are here and happy/satisfied.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Murauke
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#4492 - 2014-10-02 23:42:17 UTC
I've read this forum over and over and the dev blog over and over, and well, Because you know I'm all about that bass, 'Bout that bass, no treble, I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass, no treblem I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble, I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass.

Seriously i still can not understand why CCP want to impose a time penalty to pilots who seek out fun. the actual act of jumping ships from point A to point B shouldnt be what is penalised, it is very specifically the act of providing a cyno that should be the focus.
Utopia Atheras
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union
#4493 - 2014-10-02 23:42:32 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Can supers use gates after this change?
Yes.

Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0?
Yes, it probably does. Following further discussion after publishing this dev blog, we have come up with the following additional feature:

For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, or
For all players greater than thirty days old, once per year:

You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that:
• Moves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and
• Then moves you to the (new) station containing your medical clone

Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status. This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to Nullsec" concern, and also gives non-Nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.


Is the balance for Black Ops final?
No. Please give feedback!

Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much?
Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this.

Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it?
No. Only if the titan itself jumps.

Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea?
Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.



Please take a moment to sign the petition:

http://www.change.org/p/riot-games-hire-ccp-greyscale-ccp-fozzie

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#4494 - 2014-10-02 23:42:40 UTC
Depot cache's and every cap pilot trains JF (or freighter if that gets a .1 as well). Solved. (now where's my JF BPO...)
Yuri Thorpe
Volatile Restability
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#4495 - 2014-10-02 23:42:53 UTC
Veskrashen wrote:
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:
Jeyz Vega wrote:
There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.


Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular.
The time are changing, roll with it.

How about the traders that go to null to sell things?
How about the people who work at black frog and pushX?
What about the indy guys?
Tell me more about it hurts no one...

1. They make more isk, since there will be fewer willing to make the effort.
2. They make more isk, since their jump timers have value they can charge for.
3. They make more isk, since they can pass on their increased costs to their customers at a reasonable markup.

Seems like good things to me...

That hurts someone that has to pay for that, it always hurts someone
Nazoni 1
Diversity 101
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#4496 - 2014-10-02 23:43:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nazoni 1
Well in my opinion, if CCP goes foward with this they literay will kill null - turning it into a wasteland aswell ppl playing in it (game).
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4497 - 2014-10-02 23:43:13 UTC
Demetri Slavic wrote:
As a leader in a Merc alliance, Im interested if the nerf to the ability to move large quantities of Rigged Ships is intended.

Combat wise, I love these changes. But trying to figure out how long it will take to move 30million m3 of rigged ships 30LY with 10 carriers makes me cry.

5 hours each way, for as long as you want to do it really. With 30 carriers, you can do it in 5 hours max, or 3.75 if you use the trick pointed out earlier in the thread of waiting out your fatigue for the first 3 jumps.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Sienna Toth
Pulsar Phisics Shipyards
#4498 - 2014-10-02 23:43:16 UTC
Grayscales fundamental premise is flawed.

In general the speed of transport with a jumpship is not a factor in jumpship decisions. I may miss a few but fundamentally there are 2 reasons to make a jump.

1) Safety - Jumpships bypass the gatecamps.
2) Tactical surprise - bring overwhelming firepower to bare in a short amount of time.

Speed of movement is simply not a consideration. I suggest Greyscale get an account and figure out how the players actually play vs. cooking crap up that's basically useless and unnecessary.

Adding the ability for the Caps to be transported via gate would be a nice to have, but come on CCP quite changing things for the sake of change and get real problems in the game addressed.

!!! Love Ya !!!

LOL

Sienna
Veskrashen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4499 - 2014-10-02 23:44:06 UTC
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Veskrashen wrote:
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:
Jeyz Vega wrote:
There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.


Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular.
The time are changing, roll with it.

How about the traders that go to null to sell things?
How about the people who work at black frog and pushX?
What about the indy guys?
Tell me more about it hurts no one...

1. They make more isk, since there will be fewer willing to make the effort.
2. They make more isk, since their jump timers have value they can charge for.
3. They make more isk, since they can pass on their increased costs to their customers at a reasonable markup.

Seems like good things to me...

That hurts someone that has to pay for that, it always hurts someone

But not everyone, which was the point.

We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
Aerich e'Kieron
Peace.Keepers
#4500 - 2014-10-02 23:44:26 UTC
Yuri Thorpe wrote:
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:
Jeyz Vega wrote:
There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.


Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular.
The time are changing, roll with it.

How about the traders that go to null to sell things?
How about the people who work at black frog and pushX?
What about the indy guys?
Tell me more about it hurts no one...



These services charge people because they go to the effort of moving your stuff for you, no?
If the effort involved increases.... they could always... you know... charge more for their service.

The amount of effort involved to move stuff around isn't dependent on what type of player is moving the stuff lol.
It's just as much work for the individual, even more so. And so the value of moving someone's stuff a long distance increases.
That part of the problem is a non-issue.

If the problem lies with them being cut off from npc pirate space, then it also continue there. The players wanting to move stuff into that space can't move it there with a jump drive either. And again, PushX and Frogs can charge more for moving to that location, or refuse to do the job entirely, if they so choose.