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Dev Blog: Long-Distance Travel Changes Inbound

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Arun Tadaruwa
Hotbirds
#401 - 2014-10-01 18:17:55 UTC
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
I love how the people lauding this change are all of the high sec pubbies that mine rocks all day or shoot red crosses. Tell us more about how great this is for a change that won't impact your bubble of safety at all?


I love how the people crying are the ones having brought null to its current conditions.

Lowsec salutes you!

Alt posting because yes.
The Slayer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#402 - 2014-10-01 18:18:22 UTC
Chinicata Shihari wrote:
I know you wouldn't do this but just to show the facts

Spreadsheets are good for the mind https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IjH2JyeTd0suTC43REymnoiD2TF70HxbkRWqNtJjqds/edit#gid=0

yes that is 2.43 millennium.


Just to play Devils Advocate here a bit if you wait out the fatigue timer instead of just the jump timer you can run this exact route in around 14 hours.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#403 - 2014-10-01 18:18:36 UTC
oh seven
Stoffl
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#404 - 2014-10-01 18:18:43 UTC
I just came here to say one thing.











Bwuahahahahaha suck it nerds
Antoine Jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#405 - 2014-10-01 18:18:55 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Noelle Civire wrote:

How about just take jump fatigue and give blackops a bonus obviating most of it? How about make a cyno have a mass limit? How about limit the distance of an "apex force" by further increasing fuel consumption and making jump fuel optimizer mods available as lowslots for all capitals? Make parties have to dump their fuel mods to refit & deal with jump fatigue & deal with multiple fleets/cynos due to mass limits. Coupled together it creates a logistic nightmare for large entities to move without hurting smaller entities.

How about you freaking measure twice and cut once? For once CCP.. measure twice and put some thought into this. I don't mean 4-6 weeks. I mean 2-3 months before you change the game. Don't experiment. Don't blame it on the blogs or the player base you used as a base line. Don't wait to see how the "meta shifts." Do the real work before you release something.


- Cyno mass limits mean the alliance willing to create the most cyno alts wins, this is not a good thing to incentivize.


what are the primary differences between cyno alts not being OK, and jump alts being OK, except that a jump alt requires more than 30 days of training?
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#406 - 2014-10-01 18:18:56 UTC
The Ironfist wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Preface: this is a big change. Yes, the way you play now is, as it relates to things touched by these changes and to varying degrees, no longer going to be viable. If that wasn't the case, these changes wouldn't be worth making in the first place.

This isn't a business-as-usual tuning pass, this is redefining what jump drives are *for* in this game.


5ly range for jumprfreigthers forcing ships that can not even defend themselves to take gates and requiring 3 times as many cyno's fuel and what not do do logistics you really think that is a GOOD thing?

From a market hub to DEEP SPACE 0.0 it is around 50ly just how much time and money do you think people are willing to spend on a game that has nothing to offer? Yes JF's get a reduction in this time but it will still be 10+ jumps which means a massive time-sink. And you will be forced to take at least 5 regional gates in a 7billion ship + whatever you have loaded. Do you really mean to tell me that this is going to work out?

You still have not fixed mining it is impossible to sustain in null-sec without high-sec. Yet you are making the export and import from null-sec to high-sec and the other way around downright impossible?

I'm sorry I'm no genius I did not study game design only economics but even with the 2 semesters of game-theory we had to take I can tell this will kill your company. Because you are about to annihilate your one and only source of income.

Eve in terms of gameplay has only one thing going for it which is that it is a sandbox. PVE in this game is stuck in the 2000 era neither fun nor rewarding nor does it scale. No incentive to do PVE with friends neither is it engaging. Everything in eve takes forever and feels more like a second job then playing a game, and here you are telling us its fine to make it even worse? Please explain to me what studies you guys have done to think that this change will be well received. The problem was never that it was to easy to move the problem was that a fight that should be over in 20 minutes takes 2 hours because of TIDI. The issue you have is TIDI yet you are not addressing it why? Yes to an extend Jump-drives need a nerf but what you are going for right now is ridiculous: Titans -> Forced to take gates to get across regions ye t they have zero ability to defend them-selfs. Even worse logistics meaning Jumpfreithers are you telling me we will need an entire alliance to provide cover fleets every time we want to do logistics and every-time it is going to be 3-6 hour undertaking. Do you really think anybody wants to play a game like this much less pay for it?
pretty much all of this

it already takes too long for me to move **** around as it is and i have multiple capital alts and cynos. i don't know about your little example that you gave, but i'm definitely not covering 50 ******* light years in under 4 minutes, it takes me several hours to do that. i basically need to dedicate a whole night whenever i move stuff out of null-sec, now it looks like i'll need to dedicate a whole weekend.

don't try to tell me that this kind of change is supposed to be fun. that is disrespectful to my intelligence.
RenoIdo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#407 - 2014-10-01 18:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: RenoIdo
Thank you CCP! This is exactly the kind of patch I was hoping you could produce!

Finally time for me to leave lowsec and head back out to nullsec.

Best dev blog I have ever read! Eve is going to get exciting again. Ignore all these f1 monkeys crying for their capital drops.
Mia Tung
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#408 - 2014-10-01 18:19:24 UTC
Big smileSmileSadShockedWhat?OopsCryCryCryCryCryIdeaQuestionArrowOops

Please, please reconsider the fatigue.
How are "stealthy and sneaky" ships supposed to have their "ninja"-attacks or extraction? I'm speaking of Blackops and Recon/Stealth bomber.

Especially those shiny toys have been used by smaller corps / alliances. Ugh
addelee
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#409 - 2014-10-01 18:19:40 UTC  |  Edited by: addelee
I understand things needed nerfing. This I think was a little overkill. A good way to splinter the power blocks.
I assume next years balancing patches every few months might be around this? (i.e. Blops will be king for combat).


If JF's are being nerfed (they're actual ability is) will CCP freeup the production bottlenecks in null? Things like only being able to get certain salvage in certain area's or are we expecting t1 roams more frequently?

PS. what will happen to cyno jammers? If caps can use gates, they're virtually useless
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#410 - 2014-10-01 18:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
I foresee the rise of the capital ship ferry alt. That is, an alt who's only reason for existing is to ferry a cap ship closer to its destination. Each Ferry alt will only jump the ship twice, then hop out to make room for the next ferry alt. And so on until the ship gets to its last jump. Then the actual main pilot, the one with the skills needed to use the ship effectively, gets in. No one ever acquires a large fatigue level, so travel is only slowed a little.

Also, as these ferry alts continue to skill up, I foresee them being left at the sites of ship caches, so the player need not move anything, neither ship or pilot, to project power. All they need to is log into the proper alt.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#411 - 2014-10-01 18:20:00 UTC
Also I don't hate these changes at all, eve needed something drastic and this does give a pretty massive edge to localised forces while penalising sprawling empires.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#412 - 2014-10-01 18:20:07 UTC
Toriessian wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Awesome changes. The most powerful ships are no longer the most mobile ones and large powerblocs have to reconsider where they place their forces as they just can't teleport to blob everything anymore.


They also took away the mobility of the black ops fleet which is distinctly NOT comprised of the largest and most powerful ships in the game.


Yeah it sucks. But luckily they aren't changing the range for them.

❤️️💛💚💙💜
Bort Malice
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#413 - 2014-10-01 18:20:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Looking forward to getting this significant set of improvements for Nullsec released!


Really!? These ideas are so bad, Im actually taking the time to add my voice to those this will effect (myself included).

This is going to basically take away 1/3rd of my operations as a small corp operator.

I sincerly hope the testing proves the awfulness of these concepts.
Legetus Shmoof Metallii
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#414 - 2014-10-01 18:20:23 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
True Sight wrote:
Bacchanalian wrote:
Tell me whose babies I need to have. This is amazing. Finally a chance to shake up nullsec for the smaller fish in the pond using proper guerrilla tactics.


Except, the big fish will just install a capital fleet in every region, ready to use whenever they need it, the large coalitions/alliances have enough capital (hah, punn) to simply put 500 dreads and carriers in every single low/sec/npc null in eve.

the "smaller fish" won't afford that, so they will still be hell-camped.


So the smaller fish will only have to deal with 500 caps rather than the entire supercap + capfleet. Sounds more manageable to me.



who other then the CFC and NC can field 500 subcaps?


HERO

O tempora o mores!
JackEuchre
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#415 - 2014-10-01 18:20:29 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:
I know this is a crazy idea but before you completely crippled capital ships don't you think it might have been prudent to come up with a similar fix for blobbing 2000 megathrons into a system and release that fix at the same time as you castrate force projection with capitals?

Sometimes I wonder why I continue to waste my time with this game.



If I am not mistaken, jump fatigue applies to jump portals and titan bridging.....so yea...you won't be able to move your mega fleet 50 ly either without actually flying some of it.
Neutral Haulermeister
The Corporate Raiders
#416 - 2014-10-01 18:20:34 UTC
That system looks terrible, Range... sure... but the fatigue is too much, reduce it to a pointlessly low number or (better yet) remove it, only 1 group are hurt, logistics people, figure a way that you can nerf power projection without nuking people moving **** Ideally a system where each jump is equally punishing rather than this multiplier, some systems may become much harder to assault, it just means you need to find a way in.

Accepts your stuff if you're quitting EVE, Please mail and contract me your stuff.
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#417 - 2014-10-01 18:20:35 UTC
Best change ever for smaller group. It can be only better from now on.

If you want to deploy somewhere go ahead. Will take a bit of time. Move to a LS system engage with the locals a bit and move to the other part of EVE.

For smaller groups is better to move slower around New Eden than to be vulnarable at any time anywhere.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#418 - 2014-10-01 18:21:05 UTC
How does this affect titan bridges ?

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
#419 - 2014-10-01 18:21:21 UTC
The Slayer wrote:
Chinicata Shihari wrote:
I know you wouldn't do this but just to show the facts

Spreadsheets are good for the mind https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IjH2JyeTd0suTC43REymnoiD2TF70HxbkRWqNtJjqds/edit#gid=0

yes that is 2.43 millennium.


Just to play Devils Advocate here a bit if you wait out the fatigue timer instead of just the jump timer you can run this exact route in around 14 hours.


Yeah, there is no way in hell I'm paying subs on 8, 9, or 10 accounts (I can't even remember the exact amount I have at this point) to have the priviledge of taking a 14 hour trip in a city sized ship that can't defend itself and doesn't even have a ******* drone bay
Budrick3
Moira.
#420 - 2014-10-01 18:21:27 UTC
Can you imagine being engaged on a gate and almost killing a carrier just to have him de-agress and jump through on the other side just to rep himself back to full?

This is even more difficult considering the recent buff to Capacitor modules.

I think there has got to be a better way, but even if there was, CCP has shown their recent model of pushing out changes at a blinding speed with zero regard to feedback and criticism.