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Prototype: Dojos

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#921 - 2014-09-28 13:13:39 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

It will block others from attacking your ship in space, that's removing content.


It's ok because it's adding content with the dojo interaction, your statement would be true if dojos weren't player made and destroyable.

Well it's not the case.


Its not adding content because you can already do 1v1s. It is removing the ability for me to shoot your ship while you are in combat, thus it is removing content. This is a hard fact.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#922 - 2014-09-28 13:18:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
baltec1 wrote:
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

It will block others from attacking your ship in space, that's removing content.


It's ok because it's adding content with the dojo interaction, your statement would be true if dojos weren't player made and destroyable.

Well it's not the case.


Its not adding content because you can already do 1v1s. It is removing the ability for me to shoot your ship while you are in combat, thus it is removing content. This is a hard fact.


You can already shoot at literally everything in space that's not inside a POS shield. I don't think allowing a certain niche group of players the tools to have their sandbox will kill yours.

But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?

No, you can't warp your tornado fleet to the fight and shoot the combatants. You also can't warp your tornado fleet to a POS and shoot the people who are inside the shields either. POS shields haven't killed the sandbox.

You can blow up the POS, which everyone seems to be okay with. You can blow up the dojo too, but that's not good enough.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#923 - 2014-09-28 13:25:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Its not adding content because you can already do 1v1s. It is removing the ability for me to shoot your ship while you are in combat, thus it is removing content. This is a hard fact.


Except you're wrong friend, it's not about just 1v1s it's about 1v1s in the AT/NEO tournament setup, right now we have no automatic system to check for :

- implants

- pimped modules

- boundary violations

- OGB links

- neut logi alts

Not only that but in EVE Online shooting someone isn't the only way to interact with them, for example the only way to interact with me (negatively) if I stay in my station trading is to find what items I'm selling and to crash the market, it's still content even if you're not shooting.

EVE Online is all about risk vs reward, it's a common misconception that "you can shoot anything at anytime" (see : cloaked in safe, secure pos shield, in station, etc).

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#924 - 2014-09-28 13:26:48 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?



Notice that the only people wanting to get rid of another persons playstyle are the people who are defending a mechanic that stops others from interacting with you in this 1v1 arena.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#925 - 2014-09-28 13:29:21 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?



Notice that the only people wanting to get rid of another persons playstyle are the people who are defending a mechanic that stops others from interacting with you in this 1v1 arena.


CCP didn't remove your playstyle when they designed covops ships and stations either.

You can't always gank people in EVE, but you have other ways to interact with them.

I have a Ph.D
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#926 - 2014-09-28 13:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Yay for forum glitches.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#927 - 2014-09-28 13:34:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?



Notice that the only people wanting to get rid of another persons playstyle are the people who are defending a mechanic that stops others from interacting with you in this 1v1 arena.


That's a strawman and you know it. I demand better arguments than that.

Nobody's saying to get rid of F1 monkeying, ganking, gatecamping or anything else you do. The only thing that's being said is that there's room in the sandbox for structured tournament-style PvP backed by the requisite mechanics to make it work properly. You still have the entire rest of space to take a gigantic dump in, just like you always have.

You want to mess with their fight? Shoot the dojo. Not good enough for you? Then I guess the "this is EVE, you can't get everything you want so cry about it some more" argument cuts both ways.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#928 - 2014-09-28 13:35:28 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?



Notice that the only people wanting to get rid of another persons playstyle are the people who are defending a mechanic that stops others from interacting with you in this 1v1 arena.


That's a strawman and you know it. Nobody's saying to get rid of anything. I'm doing my level best to present rational arguments and I demand the same in return.

Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#929 - 2014-09-28 13:35:35 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?



Notice that the only people wanting to get rid of another persons playstyle are the people who are defending a mechanic that stops others from interacting with you in this 1v1 arena.


That's a strawman and you know it. Nobody's saying to get rid of anything. I'm doing my level best to present rational arguments and I demand the same in return.


Its not a strawman its the truth.

You keep on insinuating that "gankers" are demanding their playstyle be the one and only one when in fact, everyone so far is all in agreement that its ok to run 1v1s. Ironically the only playstyle that is being negetivly impacted is the gankers if this hits tranq as they will no longer be able attack people doing these honourable 1v1s.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#930 - 2014-09-28 13:37:14 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:


But then again, what do I know? **** everyone else and **** what anyone else wants, because EVE should only be fun for one playstyle, right?



Notice that the only people wanting to get rid of another persons playstyle are the people who are defending a mechanic that stops others from interacting with you in this 1v1 arena.


CCP didn't remove your playstyle when they designed covops ships and stations either.

You can't always gank people in EVE, but you have other ways to interact with them.


When you are fighting someone in PvP with your ship you are neither cloaked nor in a station.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#931 - 2014-09-28 13:43:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

When you are fighting someone in PvP with your ship you are neither cloaked nor in a station.


When you are fighting someone in PvP in a fair and controlled environment that has no rewards and only risk (of losing your ship) you shouldn't get ganked by people for no reason.

The EVE philosophy is risk vs reward, not "gank everyone because I want to" this is how CCP designed the game, dojos respect this philosophy.

Ganking is not the only way to interact with people in EVE Online, yes I understand that you like ganking but this isn't baltec1 Online, please drop your self-entitlement and respect the sandbox.

I have a Ph.D
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#932 - 2014-09-28 13:45:44 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The only thing that's being said is that there's room in the sandbox for structured tournament-style PvP backed by the requisite mechanics to make it work properly.


What was the problem with people doing this on the test server, anyway?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#933 - 2014-09-28 13:47:06 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:

When you are fighting someone in PvP in a fair and controlled environment


When such a thing exists, it has broken the sandbox. That is not even up for argument, it's a fact.


Quote:

The EVE philosophy is risk vs reward, not "gank everyone because I want to" this is how CCP designed the game, dojos respect this philosophy.


Quite the opposite, actually.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#934 - 2014-09-28 13:47:10 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The only thing that's being said is that there's room in the sandbox for structured tournament-style PvP backed by the requisite mechanics to make it work properly.


What was the problem with people doing this on the test server, anyway?


Because there's no loss on the test server.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#935 - 2014-09-28 13:48:03 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Bamboozlement wrote:


When you are fighting someone in PvP in a fair and controlled environment that has no rewards and only risk (of losing your ship) you shouldn't get ganked by people for no reason.


That you are there and shooting at each other is reason enough.


Bamboozlement wrote:

The EVE philosophy is risk vs reward, not "gank everyone because I want to" this is how CCP designed the game, dojos respect this philosophy.


Having an area in space in which two people are fighting that is impossible for anyone else to enter is not something we have ever seen before.


Bamboozlement wrote:

Ganking is not the only way to interact with people in EVE Online, yes I understand that you like ganking but this isn't baltec1 Online, please drop your self-entitlement and respect the sandbox.


I respect your right to do a 1v1, why do you not respect my right to blow both of you up?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#936 - 2014-09-28 13:48:12 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The only thing that's being said is that there's room in the sandbox for structured tournament-style PvP backed by the requisite mechanics to make it work properly.


What was the problem with people doing this on the test server, anyway?


Because there's no loss on the test server.


To the kind of people who want e-bushido, why do they even care? If it was about loss, they'd just do this wherever in space they felt like, instead of insisting on "you can touch me" walls for it.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#937 - 2014-09-28 13:51:33 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
The only thing that's being said is that there's room in the sandbox for structured tournament-style PvP backed by the requisite mechanics to make it work properly.


What was the problem with people doing this on the test server, anyway?


Because there's no loss on the test server.


To the kind of people who want e-bushido, why do they even care? If it was about loss, they'd just do this wherever in space they felt like, instead of insisting on "you can touch me" walls for it.


I'm pretty sure there's a difference between losing a fight against your opponent because they're a better pilot and losing a fight because a random Tornado showed up and alpha'd you off the field.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#938 - 2014-09-28 13:53:05 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


When such a thing exists, it has broken the sandbox. That is not even up for argument, it's a fact.


"I has broken the sandbox because I said so, despite the fact that dojos are player made and destroyable"

Just like EVE Online stopped being a sandbox in 2005 with the first AT tournament right? It was all a lie.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


Quite the opposite, actually.


Do you have any factual data or source that disprove my statement? Feel free to kill my character in station or cloaked in safe to prove your point am I right? Roll

I have a Ph.D
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#939 - 2014-09-28 13:54:16 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between losing a fight against your opponent because they're a better pilot and losing a fight because a random Tornado showed up and alpha'd you off the field.


Dead is dead.

Nevermind that I'd be really interested to see how they propose to have this abomination permit you to ignore off grid boosts. Because if they can do that, just remove off grid boosts entirely and fix the real problem.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#940 - 2014-09-28 13:56:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


That you are there and shooting at each other is reason enough.


Again this is your opinion and not how EVE Online was designed.

baltec1 wrote:

Having an area in space in which two people are fighting that is impossible for anyone else to enter is not something we have ever seen before.


Yes we have, AT/NEO tournaments since 2005 and for technical reasons till now only CCP was able to organize them (manually, CCP Veritas started working on an automatized prototype that would allow players to do the same).

baltec1 wrote:


I respect your right to do a 1v1, why do you not respect my right to blow both of you up?


You can only blow me up when I choose a gameplay with enough rewards to warrant the risk of being blown up, welcome to EVE Online.

I have a Ph.D