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Prototype: Dojos

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Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#821 - 2014-09-27 18:27:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Yea you did no such thing and throwing around phases such as "logical fallacies" does nothing to back up your argument. Its a very simple questions that is easily answered, the fact that you cannot just shows that you are just wasting everyone's time.


I think you should read the link I sent you.

You said, let me quote :

baltec1 wrote:

There has never been any point in the last 14 years in which we have had consensual PvP on Tranq.


I then gave you factual data of people having consensual pvp in TQ since 2005 proving you wrong:

Quote:

Factual data that disprove your post : http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/caldari-championships-the-first-day/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLsZPl9lYIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yIRU7-794

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4057108

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373886

And more...


Please focus, thank you mate.

I have a Ph.D
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#822 - 2014-09-27 18:28:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


Please post the mechanic that is on tranq right now or at any point in the last 14 years that is both available to everyone and stops others from interacting with you while your are in space and in combat with another player.


When certain ships were unprobeable (before being patched) they could duel safely in any safespot without fear of interuption.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Regnag Leppod
Doomheim
#823 - 2014-09-27 18:37:19 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:

This dojo has a cost, the ships inside would be bought and paid for, all of that is at risk.


Yes, but you see, a dojo doesn't provide "tears" or provide any form of sick entertainment for these folks, so it's not acceptable.
StarRoad Trucker
2012 Says Hi
The Initiative.
#824 - 2014-09-27 18:39:47 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Please post the mechanic that is on tranq right now or at any point in the last 14 years that is both available to everyone and stops others from interacting with you while your are in space and in combat with another player.


When certain ships were unprobeable (before being patched) they could duel safely in any safespot without fear of interuption.

m


You notice that was changed right?
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#825 - 2014-09-27 18:41:02 UTC  |  Edited by: FT Diomedes
I don't have a problem with the dojo idea, but I worrry about abuse. I have not been on the test server to try it, so perhaps this is not an issue. Let's say I have my dojo deployed in my home system. I try to undock, but a hostile Interdictor bubbles the undock. So, my alt and I undock and activate my dojo. What happens? Do my alt and I warp off to my protected Deadspace pocket? If my alt and I are ratting in the same system and a hostile enters local, can I activate dojo, and warp to a safe spot for the rest of the timer? Or several variations on this theme...

In short, I am concerned that device, if brought to TQ, will be used to avoid nonconsenual PVP. That would be devastating.

If someone wants to be an honorable space samurai and have fixed 1v1 matches, that is fine by me as long as real ships explode and there are still consequences in Eve.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#826 - 2014-09-27 18:42:28 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Please post the mechanic that is on tranq right now or at any point in the last 14 years that is both available to everyone and stops others from interacting with you while your are in space and in combat with another player.


When certain ships were unprobeable (before being patched) they could duel safely in any safespot without fear of interuption.

m


The fact that this was patched shows that it wasn't intended.

This is the problem people have with this thing if it ever finds its way onto tranq. It will be the first time in EVEs history that a mechanic was put into the game with the intention of it stopping others from interacting with you while you are in space. Its a massive change of direction for EVE and one many are not comfortable with.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#827 - 2014-09-27 18:44:00 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
I don't have a problem with the dojo idea, but I worrry about abuse. I have not been on the test server to try it, so perhaps this is not an issue. Let's say I have my dojo deployed in my home system. I try to undock, but a hostile Interdictor bubbles the undock. So, my alt and I undock and activate my dojo. What happens? Do my alt and I warp off to my protected Deadspace pocket? If my alt and I are ratting in the same system and a hostile enters local, do I warp to a safe spot for the rest of the timer? Or several variations on this theme...

In short, I am concerned that device, if brought to TQ, will be used to avoid nonconsenual PVP. That would be devastating.

If someone wants to be an honorable space samurai and have fixed 1v1 matches, that is fine by me as long as real ships explode and there are still consequences in Eve.


You would be able to grab a D-scan of the area without having to undock into a station camp.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#828 - 2014-09-27 18:44:48 UTC
Regnag Leppod wrote:
Mike Azariah wrote:

This dojo has a cost, the ships inside would be bought and paid for, all of that is at risk.


Yes, but you see, a dojo doesn't provide "tears" or provide any form of sick entertainment for these folks, so it's not acceptable.


Bingo, and remember that eve will die if you don't agree with them !!! Roll

StarRoad Trucker wrote:

You notice that was changed right?


He asked him a (stupid) question he gave him an answer.

Not only that but that's not even relevant, that's like saying "CCP shouldn't have updated the industry UI because we had no nice industry UI in 14 years". Roll

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#829 - 2014-09-27 18:47:59 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Yea you did no such thing and throwing around phases such as "logical fallacies" does nothing to back up your argument. Its a very simple questions that is easily answered, the fact that you cannot just shows that you are just wasting everyone's time.


I think you should read the link I sent you.

You said, let me quote :

baltec1 wrote:

There has never been any point in the last 14 years in which we have had consensual PvP on Tranq.


I then gave you factual data of people having consensual pvp in TQ since 2005 proving you wrong:

Quote:

Factual data that disprove your post : http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/caldari-championships-the-first-day/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLsZPl9lYIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5yIRU7-794

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4057108

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373886

And more...


Please focus, thank you mate.


The first link was to an event I believe was run by CCP in space we cannot access, in which case they teleported people there. These things are not available to anyone other than CCP. If not then it took place in space in which I could have attacked them at any point.

The other links all involve areas in which I can interact with them against their will while they PvP. You have provided no evidence to back up your claim.
Noriko Mai
#830 - 2014-09-27 18:48:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
I don't have a problem with the dojo idea, but I worrry about abuse. I have not been on the test server to try it, so perhaps this is not an issue. Let's say I have my dojo deployed in my home system. I try to undock, but a hostile Interdictor bubbles the undock. So, my alt and I undock and activate my dojo. What happens? Do my alt and I warp off to my protected Deadspace pocket? If my alt and I are ratting in the same system and a hostile enters local, do I warp to a safe spot for the rest of the timer? Or several variations on this theme...

In short, I am concerned that device, if brought to TQ, will be used to avoid nonconsenual PVP. That would be devastating.

If someone wants to be an honorable space samurai and have fixed 1v1 matches, that is fine by me as long as real ships explode and there are still consequences in Eve.


You would be able to grab a D-scan of the area without having to undock into a station camp.

If you are lucky and pocket is <14AU from station. And if you are lucky and ccp will release this prototype as is without any changes...

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Noriko Mai
#831 - 2014-09-27 18:49:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
f u c k this forums

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Noriko Mai
#832 - 2014-09-27 18:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
argh

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#833 - 2014-09-27 18:52:07 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
f u c k this forums


Ugh
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#834 - 2014-09-27 18:53:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The first link was to an event I believe was run by CCP in space was cannot access, inwhich case they teleported people there. These things are not available to anyone other than CCP. If not then it took place in space in which I could have attacked them at any point.

The other links all involve areas in which I can interact with them against their will while they PvP. You have provided no evidence to back up your claim.


Are you trolling? It is consensual pvp they both agreed to fight under some conditions (ship size, location, maybe timers?)

This is a joke right? Roll

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#835 - 2014-09-27 19:06:27 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

The first link was to an event I believe was run by CCP in space was cannot access, inwhich case they teleported people there. These things are not available to anyone other than CCP. If not then it took place in space in which I could have attacked them at any point.

The other links all involve areas in which I can interact with them against their will while they PvP. You have provided no evidence to back up your claim.


Are you trolling? It is consensual pvp they both agreed to fight under some conditions (ship size, location, maybe timers?)

This is a joke right? Roll


This seems to be a case of either you trolling or you not understanding what others are sying.

When we talk about consensual PvP we are not talking about what two people decide we are talking about the the whole game. Consensual PvP is when there are mechanics in place that stops others from interacting with you while you run your 1v1. EVE has never has such a mechanic in it before and it is this mechanic that people are against. We don't care if you want to organise a 1v1 with someone we just care about a mechanic being put in place that stops us from interacting with you while you are doing it.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#836 - 2014-09-27 19:18:21 UTC
You asked for an example and I provided one.

Your counter was that the example was patched.

By that line of reasoning IF the Dojo was put in place and it was seen to be counter to the games purposes and play then it would be patched. Your faith in Eve and its dev team is appreciated.

Please forward a new objection as you have asked and answered this one and I agree with you on the conclusions.

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#837 - 2014-09-27 19:19:03 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
This seems to be a case of either you trolling or you not understanding what others are sying.

When we talk about consensual PvP we are not talking about what two people decide we are talking about the the whole game. Consensual PvP is when there are mechanics in place that stops others from interacting with you while you run your 1v1. EVE has never has such a mechanic in it before and it is this mechanic that people are against. We don't care if you want to organise a 1v1 with someone we just care about a mechanic being put in place that stops us from interacting with you while you are doing it.


Then your definition of consensual pvp is wrong, don't blame me. Roll

What you are trying to say is that since CCP didn't give an option to players to have fair and competitive pvp till now, they shouldn't implement it.

It's as stupid as saying CCP shouldn't have implemented the new Industry UI because we had no good industry UI for years, despite the need for one.

Competitive and fair pvp exist in eve since 2005, just because it's incompatible by design with a specific gameplay in eve (ganking) doesn't mean CCP should leave it under-designed and clunky.

Using the same logic I can say that CCP shouldn't change sov null because bad and clunky sov null is part of eve, same for POS management and anything that need a change.

Drop your self-entitlement, your way to play eve isn't the only way.

I have a Ph.D
Dave stark
#838 - 2014-09-27 19:23:20 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
You asked for an example and I provided one.

Your counter was that the example was patched.

By that line of reasoning IF the Dojo was put in place and it was seen to be counter to the games purposes and play then it would be patched. Your faith in Eve and its dev team is appreciated.

Please forward a new objection as you have asked and answered this one and I agree with you on the conclusions.

m


faith in the dev team would be that they realise this idea is bad, and it never sees the light of day.

that's faith I'm not sure i have.

while it's nice that they have the tools to create such monstrosities, and the use of those tools should be encouraged... ideas like this should never make it to tq.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#839 - 2014-09-27 19:24:50 UTC
Bamboozlement wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
This seems to be a case of either you trolling or you not understanding what others are sying.

When we talk about consensual PvP we are not talking about what two people decide we are talking about the the whole game. Consensual PvP is when there are mechanics in place that stops others from interacting with you while you run your 1v1. EVE has never has such a mechanic in it before and it is this mechanic that people are against. We don't care if you want to organise a 1v1 with someone we just care about a mechanic being put in place that stops us from interacting with you while you are doing it.


Then your definition of consensual pvp is wrong, don't blame me. Roll

What you are trying to say is that since CCP didn't give an option to players to have fair and competitive pvp till now, they shouldn't implement it.

It's as stupid as saying CCP shouldn't have implemented the new Industry UI because we had no good industry UI for years, despite the need for one.

Competitive and fair pvp exist in eve since 2005, just because it's incompatible by design with a specific gameplay in eve (ganking) doesn't mean CCP should leave it under-designed and clunky.

Using the same logic I can say that CCP shouldn't change sov null because bad and clunky sov null is part of eve, same for POS management and anything that need a change.

Drop your self-entitlement, your way to play eve isn't the only way.


The real irony here is having you demand a sandbox then in the next sentence demand that everyone elses sandbox be take away.

Also please stop telling both lies and trying to compare totally different things to each other. There has never been a mechanic in place that forces "fair" fights in EVE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#840 - 2014-09-27 19:26:35 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Mike Azariah wrote:
You asked for an example and I provided one.

Your counter was that the example was patched.

By that line of reasoning IF the Dojo was put in place and it was seen to be counter to the games purposes and play then it would be patched. Your faith in Eve and its dev team is appreciated.

Please forward a new objection as you have asked and answered this one and I agree with you on the conclusions.

m


Problem here is that we have seen several things added that had to be patched later after causing a great deal of damage. I would rather not have the damaging things happen in the first place.

I have no issues with this being on SiSi I only have issues with it being on Tranq.