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Prototype: Dojos

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Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#501 - 2014-09-25 19:11:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The issue is that most people looking for 1v1s will just use these things rather than going out roaming and PvP in the wider world will be greatly harmed. All you are doing is proving my point that people prefer to use arenas over having to go out and look for a fight and take bigger risks of things going wrong for them.


Yes you won't be able to blob people looking for 1v1s if they to use dojos instead of roaming for hours to get decent fights, what a shame people should roam for hours so you can blob them because people looking for 1v1s having fun is illegal (it's in the rules of eve, btw if you don't agree with me eve will die). Roll

You also forgot that a lot of people look for outnumbered fight and that adding dojos won't affect them.

Do you want to go for a quick 1v1 and have no time for a roam ? Go to a dojo.

Do you have time and are you fine going 1 vs odds ? Go roam.

It's all about options and choices.

I have a Ph.D
Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#502 - 2014-09-25 19:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Johnathan Coffey
baltec1 wrote:
Johnathan Coffey wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The issue is that most people looking for 1v1s will just use these things rather than going out roaming and PvP in the wider world will be greatly harmed.

The first part of the sentence does not in any way imply the second part, unless you consider blobbing soloers the main aspect of PvP.


PvP is PvP. Having fewer targets around is bad for solo player and blobber alike.

UNLESS the soloer gets a lot more targets and the blob gets only a few less (helpless, boring) targets.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#503 - 2014-09-25 19:12:47 UTC
Ruric Thyase wrote:


Right, because when you take out a 7 man gang of t1 cruisers, its your fault for getting hotdropped by supers. You just didn't try hard enough and take a big enough risk to get "The good stuff"

Honestly, I would probably use the dojo with my corpmates. That at least is the biggest appeal I see for it. I think if you added larger fleets, betting/gambling, then it becomes a larger risk of affecting PvP I will agree. I do however think this has a lot of potential to be a great teaching tool, especially for new players.


As a tool for teaching and running events I like it, it just needs to lose the no messing around with fights mechanic.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#504 - 2014-09-25 19:13:16 UTC
Quote:

The owner has to deploy it in space.
The owner has to go into space to stock it.


Ok, so that's two points of the 'this thing just screams KILL ME WHEN I SET IT UP' list.

Can items be removed when it's RF'd?
Does it have an anchoring timer, allowing people to find them and set up waiting for the owner to come stock it?
How much storage space does it have (ie: how often would it have to be restocked, as the more often it needs to be restocked, the riskier it is to deploy one)?
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#505 - 2014-09-25 19:13:16 UTC
Neutral Haulermeister wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Neutral Haulermeister wrote:
This would be Great!


On Sisi, on TQ PvP should be as fair as all involved allow it to be, If I want to fight there are duels, yellow cans, everything that isn't high-sec, war-decs for a reason.
Also if you make this people will abuse the **** out of it to not get scanned down.

To not get scanned down for 5 minutes? LOL Big smile
Not really seeing the potential for abuse there my friend.

5 minutes? so that's how long the fight will last? Last I recall Duel Timers lasted as long as the two were fighting, so I could cause light damage to my friend and likewise to me if the fight is not extended then long fights are discouraged and treated unfairly, if you allow it then the issue of people hiding from scans is there.

5 minutes is usually long enough for a frigate duel, but could be lengthened if needed. Duels are a different bird entirely, and can easily be interfered with. Different mechanic entirely.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#506 - 2014-09-25 19:13:47 UTC
Johnathan Coffey wrote:

UNLESS the soloer gets a lot more targets and the blob gets only a few less (boring because helpless) targets.


soloer and blobber will not be getting more targets in the wider world if they are all in dojos will they?
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#507 - 2014-09-25 19:14:02 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Johnathan Coffey wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The issue is that most people looking for 1v1s will just use these things rather than going out roaming and PvP in the wider world will be greatly harmed.

The first part of the sentence does not in any way imply the second part, unless you consider blobbing soloers the main aspect of PvP.


PvP is PvP. Having fewer targets around is bad for solo player and blobber alike.


It's not bad for the solo player because solo players can use dojos, you know it's literally made for them and a lot of solo players are excited for the dojos implementation.

I have a Ph.D
Arrendis
TK Corp
#508 - 2014-09-25 19:14:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

As a tool for teaching and running events I like it, it just needs to lose the no messing around with fights mechanic.


But that mechanic's exactly what makes it so useful a tool for teaching: the teacher and student can focus on the lesson being taught, rather than trying to teach while looking over your shoulder all the time.
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#509 - 2014-09-25 19:15:32 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mangala Solaris wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Johnathan Coffey wrote:

What if the "arena" is not static and changes places every 5min?


Does it?



Its a random arena every time - or at least each DS pocket I used today seemed to be different ranges from parts of the system each time. I'll do further testing of course incase I was just blind.


Please do, if its static then I can get in, if it swaps around then we can at least remove two underhand uses of it.


Definitely changes every time. I just ran a few matches v an alt, recording distance from sun and the dojo deployable every time. Anything from 3 AU to 12 AU off both each match. Obviously could be different in larger systems.
Xorth Adimus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#510 - 2014-09-25 19:15:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorth Adimus
Two pods enter, one pod leaves..

Edit.. Also this needs a spectator mode so anyone in system can watch.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#511 - 2014-09-25 19:15:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ruric Thyase wrote:


Right, because when you take out a 7 man gang of t1 cruisers, its your fault for getting hotdropped by supers. You just didn't try hard enough and take a big enough risk to get "The good stuff"

Honestly, I would probably use the dojo with my corpmates. That at least is the biggest appeal I see for it. I think if you added larger fleets, betting/gambling, then it becomes a larger risk of affecting PvP I will agree. I do however think this has a lot of potential to be a great teaching tool, especially for new players.


As a tool for teaching and running events I like it, it just needs to lose the no messing around with fights mechanic.


How can you use it to teach people or use it for events if people can mess with the fight?

Johnathan Coffey
Niforce Triggers
#512 - 2014-09-25 19:16:34 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Johnathan Coffey wrote:

UNLESS the soloer gets a lot more targets and the blob gets only a few less (boring because helpless) targets.


soloer and blobber will not be getting more targets in the wider world if they are all in dojos will they?

if they are all in dojos they are getting targets non-stop. that's kind of the point.

First rule of EVE UI: right click EVERYTHING.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#513 - 2014-09-25 19:17:01 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

As a tool for teaching and running events I like it, it just needs to lose the no messing around with fights mechanic.


But that mechanic's exactly what makes it so useful a tool for teaching: the teacher and student can focus on the lesson being taught, rather than trying to teach while looking over your shoulder all the time.


That is the most important lesson in EVE by far. You don't need to be impossible to scan in order to teach people how to fight.
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#514 - 2014-09-25 19:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Belinda HwaFang
Very nice to hear you are finally working on this kind of feature, even if it's currently a prototype.

This would be a great addition to EVE for new and old players alike and would definitely bring in interest from gamers that wouldn't normally try EVE as well as provide a platform for tournaments and training for CCP sanctioned tournaments.

Keep up the good work, looking forward to testing this.

--
Fang
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#515 - 2014-09-25 19:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Johnathan Coffey wrote:

if they are all in dojos they are getting targets non-stop. that's kind of the point.


Which means the wider world PvP is being hurt. This is exactly what I am warning you people about, arenas suck pvp out of the rest of the world.
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#516 - 2014-09-25 19:20:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Johnathan Coffey wrote:

if they are all in dojos they are getting targets non-stop. that's kind of the point.


Which means the wider world PvP is being hurt.


Translation :

I can't gank people looking for 1v1s, eve is dying.

HTFU and adapt, welcome to eve online.

I have a Ph.D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#517 - 2014-09-25 19:21:46 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mangala Solaris wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Johnathan Coffey wrote:

What if the "arena" is not static and changes places every 5min?


Does it?



Its a random arena every time - or at least each DS pocket I used today seemed to be different ranges from parts of the system each time. I'll do further testing of course incase I was just blind.


Please do, if its static then I can get in, if it swaps around then we can at least remove two underhand uses of it.


Definitely changes every time. I just ran a few matches v an alt, recording distance from sun and the dojo deployable every time. Anything from 3 AU to 12 AU off both each match. Obviously could be different in larger systems.


Thank you.

Next up, can you test how long the matches last and can you get a booster tengu/command ship in them?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#518 - 2014-09-25 19:24:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

That is the most important lesson in EVE by far. You don't need to be impossible to scan in order to teach people how to fight.


It totally is the most important lesson in EVE. I agree with that 100%. That said, the most important lesson when learning to drive is 'everyone else on the road can **** up, too', but that doesn't mean the first few lessons of every Driver's Ed course don't take place in a controlled environment without other drivers, like a closed course, or a controlled school parking lot.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#519 - 2014-09-25 19:24:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

As a tool for teaching and running events I like it, it just needs to lose the no messing around with fights mechanic.


But that mechanic's exactly what makes it so useful a tool for teaching: the teacher and student can focus on the lesson being taught, rather than trying to teach while looking over your shoulder all the time.


That is the most important lesson in EVE by far. You don't need to be impossible to scan in order to teach people how to fight.


Learning to look over your shoulder is not a skill unique to PvP though and nor is it a skill that would require you to have a dojo for. Teaching someone how to make a safe spot, or bouncing to celestials is very easy for a new player to understand and if they make a mistake, the learn it the hard way. Trying to explain to someone the importance of angular velocity, optimal, falloff, tracking speed, explosion radius, are all things you can teach in that secure environment, minimize the damage done, practice and implement, and then use out in other situations.
Tiran'Sol
Pulling The Plug
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#520 - 2014-09-25 19:25:58 UTC
I would love to be able to put a contract into the system to fight over. E.g. you win you automatically accept the contract (also leaves room for awesome scamming)