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Prototype: Dojos

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#61 - 2014-09-25 11:58:59 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:


And seriously you extrapolated all the way to fleet arenas, can I have some of your depression?



no it is a reasonable concern and an understandable fear

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Eshnala
TURN LEFT
#62 - 2014-09-25 11:59:23 UTC
Yes please!

I really like this feature and i can see it beeing helpful to further enhance the tournament style PvP aspect you alread have within EvE thx to the AT/NEO.
You could extend it to the degree, where you have a league that leads up to the AT or NEO (and through this, get rid of the stupid silent auction).

And for the people who are complaining about this not beeing EvE and beeing against the sandbox: it will just add another layer of PvP. You are not required to participate in it and there will be plenty of people who wont like it.
It just gives the people who are actualy wanting a more skillbased and e-sport directed PvP approach a platform to have exactly that. And i can see a huge benefit for the smaller guy that wants to participate in Tournaments, because they are able to become familiar with the whole system and practice it without that much of an effort.

I hope CCP does look over all the haters and just goes through with it, it wont hurt EvE at all in the end.


Also big thx to veritas for all his dedication towards the idea of tournaments in EvE (and all the technical stuff aswell ofc), you will be deeply missed.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-09-25 12:02:32 UTC
Mangala Solaris wrote:
This would reinvigorate the 1v1, make them an actual thing again, beyond us needing to continually hammer home rules/or setup special channels on how 1v1s should be handled.


It will probably kill 1v1, and in worst case also solo pvp and it will add wow style arenas... next step will be the garmon/tournament crowd pushing for dojo team fights and then small scale pvp is ******...

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#64 - 2014-09-25 12:02:56 UTC
Nice stuff, if this ever hits TQ, I'm out.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#65 - 2014-09-25 12:03:17 UTC
CCP Veritas wrote:
In the meantime I would very much like to invite people to give it a spin before they judge too deeply. There's a lot of jumping to conclusions going on in here.


This is pvp that happens in a protected instance. That's the entire premise of the idea and the reason it is unacceptable, we aren't "jumping to conclusions".
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#66 - 2014-09-25 12:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Camper101 wrote:
Garmon has a point, for player hosted tournaments it does indeed make sense, but I do see a lot of people just carebearing in the real game then and for their "pewpew" thrills they can use Dojo without risking anything at all.

The thing is "carebearing in the real game" will still put you at risk from the usual things, getting ganked and so on.

Honestly, I think it's great. This opens up PvP to new players that don't immediatley have a pvp oriented corp supporting them. Sure there are options like Brave for newbies, but many new players are put off by the "throw as many people as you can" way of solving problems.

Likewise, people that limit themselves to hisec mission running only never get to experience the rush of pvp. And who knows, maybe they get a taste for it and move out of the frigate dojo to pvp with larger ships in low/null.

dexington wrote:

It will probably kill 1v1

What is dead may never die.
Gilgamesh BoShudda
Run and Gun
#67 - 2014-09-25 12:05:44 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Gilgamesh BoShudda wrote:
Great, so now when I am flying around in FW lowsec looking for frig fights, instead of finding mostly stabbed and cloaky frigs, I will find ONLY stabbed and cloaky frigs. All of the players who would normally be venturing out into FW systems looking for fun fights will instead just stay docked in the hubs. If this ends up on TQ, it will kill frig PVP.


Not true this sort of system caters to another type of player then FW does there will always be the RP pilots and the guys looking to fight dirty.


I think this will cater to exactly the same pilots that FW does. FW offers a chance for players who are new to pvp to find frig fights in a semi-controlled environment (plexes). And as for fighting pilots who fight dirty, what you are saying is that now the ONLY pilots I can get fights from are the ones who will blob me. What a ringing endorsement!
Lugh Crow-Slave
#68 - 2014-09-25 12:08:08 UTC
Eshnala wrote:
Yes please!

And for the people who are complaining about this not beeing EvE and beeing against the sandbox: it will just add another layer of PvP. You are not required to participate in it and there will be plenty of people who wont like it.
It just gives the people who are actualy wanting a more skillbased and e-sport directed PvP approach a platform to have exactly that. And i can see a huge benefit for the smaller guy that wants to participate in Tournaments, because they are able to become familiar with the whole system and practice it without that much of an effort.

I hope CCP does look over all the haters and just goes through with it, it wont hurt EvE at all in the end.




The people who are worried are the ones who feel this will affect them by removing people who are currently out in low sec looking for fights so yes it will affect even the ones not interested in it.

as for look over all the haters i would be very disappointed in any developer (fozzie) that would ignore those who think they have a bad idea and just push it through anyway

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Infrequent
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2014-09-25 12:08:44 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Infrequent wrote:
I can see this replacing highsec duels, or just being a way to mess around on Sisi, either way +1 and let the bitter vet "slippery slope" tears commence, actually it seems they've already begun since people seem to fail to understand that this ISN'T ON TQ.

If this was an idea proposed by a random EVE player, you'd have a point. It isn't though.


But that's where you're wrong, this idea has been around for years, infact a 3rd party company was in the early stages of working with CCP to get something just like this, on a tournament level what was player controlled and implemented. I assume that development has ceased, as we haven't heard anything from them since.

Winthorp wrote:
Infrequent wrote:
I can see this replacing highsec duels, or just being a way to mess around on Sisi, either way +1 and let the bitter vet "slippery slope" tears commence, actually it seems they've already begun since people seem to fail to understand that this ISN'T ON TQ.


You fail to grasp the concept of slippery slope when you say it isn't on TQ......

Is it people with your intelligence this feature will cater for i wonder?


I assume it's for people who are capable of understanding open dialogue, where if it is viewed as an issue for TQ, the playerbase would proceed to convey that point and (hopefully) we would end up with it being a feature that is kept on for Sisi/tournament/event use. You see instead of individuals immediately going "IT'S OVER, EVE IS FINISHED", they should see that there is the likelyhood that their contribution should prevent this "slippery slope".
Lugh Crow-Slave
#70 - 2014-09-25 12:08:54 UTC
Gilgamesh BoShudda wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Gilgamesh BoShudda wrote:
Great, so now when I am flying around in FW lowsec looking for frig fights, instead of finding mostly stabbed and cloaky frigs, I will find ONLY stabbed and cloaky frigs. All of the players who would normally be venturing out into FW systems looking for fun fights will instead just stay docked in the hubs. If this ends up on TQ, it will kill frig PVP.


Not true this sort of system caters to another type of player then FW does there will always be the RP pilots and the guys looking to fight dirty.


I think this will cater to exactly the same pilots that FW does. FW offers a chance for players who are new to pvp to find frig fights in a semi-controlled environment (plexes). And as for fighting pilots who fight dirty, what you are saying is that now the ONLY pilots I can get fights from are the ones who will blob me. What a ringing endorsement!


nah you could always jump into a dojoTwisted

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Randolph Sykes
Boars on Parade
The Tuskers Co.
#71 - 2014-09-25 12:08:56 UTC
You're messing with the entire ~sandbox~ thing. Don't implement this on TQ, please. This is beyond dangerous for the game.
Sierra Payne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2014-09-25 12:11:19 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Sierra Payne wrote:
dexington wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Have you ever wanted a little pewpew but didn’t have the time to find a fight, or even fit a ship?


is this really the crowd you think should be rewarded?, do you really think sugar coated bullshit pvp is going to add anything to the sandbox?


Honestly I see it like the following,

What happens when you're a new player with no experience in PVP yet you want to learn how to be more effective at flying your ships. Your friend invites you to the dojo so that you can practice a bit more before heading out into the wild and PVP properly against all kind of matchups. Suddenly the quality of pilots rises because they learned better how to fly, making your PVP life more challenging and exciting.

Win/Win across the board, provided it's implemented with no rewards or benefits to other people.



Surely you get used to these fights, in a completely controlled environment with no way for other people to interfere, meaning that when you try actual PVP, you just die a lot to superior numbers because you still have no idea how ACTUAL pvp works?


Is this one giant troll thread?


You seem to miss the point.
Sure, you are totally right if you are judging it on major fleets, but that's NOT what the dojo has been made for. Myself I honestly have no problems with fleet fights, but I struggle in solo-battles because there's a whole different skillset that's relevant to your battle.

Sure, there always will be external factors that influence the outcome. But the idea of a dojo, if properly implemented, would help newer pilots to learn how their ship flies in terms of speed, agility, match ups, transversal/angular/radial velocity etc.

Not only that, but having a system such as this in place, again if done right, could spark a lot more PVP content through player-made tournaments.
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2014-09-25 12:11:32 UTC
The deployable that contains the ships/modules - is it scannable/shootable?
Kadesh Priestess
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#74 - 2014-09-25 12:12:28 UTC
Very cool beginning indeed.

Haven't been really playing for a long time (aside from ATs), this thing might make me to get back.
Sierra Payne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2014-09-25 12:12:34 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Eshnala wrote:
Yes please!

And for the people who are complaining about this not beeing EvE and beeing against the sandbox: it will just add another layer of PvP. You are not required to participate in it and there will be plenty of people who wont like it.
It just gives the people who are actualy wanting a more skillbased and e-sport directed PvP approach a platform to have exactly that. And i can see a huge benefit for the smaller guy that wants to participate in Tournaments, because they are able to become familiar with the whole system and practice it without that much of an effort.

I hope CCP does look over all the haters and just goes through with it, it wont hurt EvE at all in the end.




The people who are worried are the ones who feel this will affect them by removing people who are currently out in low sec looking for fights so yes it will affect even the ones not interested in it.

as for look over all the haters i would be very disappointed in any developer (fozzie) that would ignore those who think they have a bad idea and just push it through anyway


If they wanted more people to fly in lowsec, perhaps people should stop using links as a means to win battles? I know I gave up on FW because whoever you meet, they all have links somewhere.
Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#76 - 2014-09-25 12:13:32 UTC
tgl3 wrote:
The deployable that contains the ships/modules - is it scannable/shootable?


Yes, you can scan this down and warp it. When and if I ever get on to Duality, I'll test the shooting part.
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#77 - 2014-09-25 12:13:34 UTC
this is absolute tripe, unprobeable pockets? really?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#78 - 2014-09-25 12:13:39 UTC
Sierra Payne wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Sierra Payne wrote:
dexington wrote:
CCP Veritas wrote:
Have you ever wanted a little pewpew but didn’t have the time to find a fight, or even fit a ship?


is this really the crowd you think should be rewarded?, do you really think sugar coated bullshit pvp is going to add anything to the sandbox?


Honestly I see it like the following,

What happens when you're a new player with no experience in PVP yet you want to learn how to be more effective at flying your ships. Your friend invites you to the dojo so that you can practice a bit more before heading out into the wild and PVP properly against all kind of matchups. Suddenly the quality of pilots rises because they learned better how to fly, making your PVP life more challenging and exciting.

Win/Win across the board, provided it's implemented with no rewards or benefits to other people.



Surely you get used to these fights, in a completely controlled environment with no way for other people to interfere, meaning that when you try actual PVP, you just die a lot to superior numbers because you still have no idea how ACTUAL pvp works?


Is this one giant troll thread?


You seem to miss the point.
Sure, you are totally right if you are judging it on major fleets, but that's NOT what the dojo has been made for. Myself I honestly have no problems with fleet fights, but I struggle in solo-battles because there's a whole different skillset that's relevant to your battle.

Sure, there always will be external factors that influence the outcome. But the idea of a dojo, if properly implemented, would help newer pilots to learn how their ship flies in terms of speed, agility, match ups, transversal/angular/radial velocity etc.

Not only that, but having a system such as this in place, again if done right, could spark a lot more PVP content through player-made tournaments.


but this is something they could do even if the dojos are kept off TQ

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Sierra Payne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-09-25 12:13:52 UTC
Randolph Sykes wrote:
You're messing with the entire ~sandbox~ thing. Don't implement this on TQ, please. This is beyond dangerous for the game.


Please elaborate.

As far as I can see it, provided it's done correctly, this will help the sandbox a lot more in the long run. It will allow you to run your own tournaments, your own competitions and that adds a layer of depth to the game.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#80 - 2014-09-25 12:16:09 UTC
Sierra Payne wrote:

You seem to miss the point.
Sure, you are totally right if you are judging it on major fleets, but that's NOT what the dojo has been made for. Myself I honestly have no problems with fleet fights, but I struggle in solo-battles because there's a whole different skillset that's relevant to your battle.

Sure, there always will be external factors that influence the outcome. But the idea of a dojo, if properly implemented, would help newer pilots to learn how their ship flies in terms of speed, agility, match ups, transversal/angular/radial velocity etc.

Not only that, but having a system such as this in place, again if done right, could spark a lot more PVP content through player-made tournaments.


No you're the one missing the point- tournaments are not "PVP content", they are bullshit. Development of this prototype should have never gotten the slightest flicker of green light in the first place.