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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#1941 - 2014-09-21 03:03:18 UTC
Everybody who is still in wormhole space is farming.
Even more now
since less people are rage rolling.

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"
Rei Moon
Perkone
Caldari State
#1942 - 2014-09-21 03:04:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rei Moon
One thing is certain
Hyperion didn't bring more people into wspace.
A few bears maybe.

Down the pole podcast "Annhhh"
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1943 - 2014-09-21 22:24:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Aiyshimin wrote:
Are you guys seriously still going on about this? :D

This change was just fine, and accomplished exactly what CCP intended- making farmers less willing to seal their farmholes.

Everyone else is unaffected.




i am really quite impressed, it takes a real capacity for someone to entirely missunderstand every single argument, point and effect. After over 130 combined pages.
Glad you are ok, but you don't actually have any experience of living in a wormhole? Do you?
Because if you do I will be even more impressed with your abilities to remain so disconnected from reality.
And just moving into a C4 since hyperion does not count as experienced.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Gunner GzR
Timber Wolves
#1944 - 2014-09-21 23:56:53 UTC
lol i would be a bad csm..

CCP would kick me out of the game...i will restate my thoughts b4

Quote:
I think enough has been said that CCP knows we do not Like One of the changes and its hurting our space. Now it is just a matter of seeing if they care enough to back up a few changes or make more constructive changes to Pull Players back into w space.

Here are a few of my ideas.


1. Sleepers faction Drops= this will Give us officer / faction drops same as other space and will drive ppl into whs to hunt for them.

2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections

3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3 also let make a few more of the triggers random to take out the boring predictable assembly line style of running sights. Maybe give them some escalations as well if you warp in bs's or caps for all class sites


That is all i have for now but a few constructive ideas for you to look over

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
Jessica Duranin
Doomheim
#1945 - 2014-09-22 08:41:00 UTC
Quote:
2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections

So basically a faster way for the big corps to seed caps into someone's system? Hmm...
I'm sure Lazerhawks would love that.
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#1946 - 2014-09-22 13:04:43 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

i am really quite impressed, it takes a real capacity for someone to entirely missunderstand every single argument, point and effect. After over 130 combined pages.
Glad you are ok, but you don't actually have any experience of living in a wormhole? Do you?
Because if you do I will be even more impressed with your abilities to remain so disconnected from reality.
And just moving into a C4 since hyperion does not count as experienced.


I've lived in C2>C3+HS, C2>C2+LS, C3>LS, C4>C3, C5>C3, C5>C5 in addition to the current C4>C4+C2 starting from early 2011, which was approx 2.5 years before your character was created.

I've sieged, been sieged, flown in the headline-making biggest blobs of w-space, FCd, soloed, farmed and lead a wh corp. I sure as hell do have ******* "experience" and I've literally had it with the current whiney-ass mentality on this sad excuse of a subforum.

This mass-spawn whine is the just the most ridiculous recent example of the mentality. No, it did not "kill w-space" or even radically changed it, if you are unhappy about it just pack your toys and go back to Rescuing the Damsel and do us all a favour- shut the **** up.

Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1947 - 2014-09-22 13:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Aiyshimin wrote:
or even radically changed it


Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the rest of your points this is just wrong - it has radically shifted the balance in the possibilities for smaller entities to manipulate the wormhole terrain to have half a chance when faced with a larger entity. Which has a fairly sizeable knock on effect - should see the number of people who open into us and go "nope" and log off because they assume rightly or wrongly any attempt to collapse would result in a one sided loss of ships.


I've also noticed since these changes have come in that increasingly people in the alliance - even more than in the past - are resorting to hunting for targets in nullsec, its probably made things safer for people who have isolated themselves in w-space and/or don't have lots of active connections than ever before.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1948 - 2014-09-22 15:10:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

I want to remind people that the best way to have your views heard is to state your case calmly, politely and with logical reasoning.


You must be new here Cool
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
#1949 - 2014-09-22 15:44:35 UTC
Rroff wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
or even radically changed it


Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the rest of your points this is just wrong - it has radically shifted the balance in the possibilities for smaller entities to manipulate the wormhole terrain to have half a chance when faced with a larger entity. Which has a fairly sizeable knock on effect - should see the number of people who open into us and go "nope" and log off because they assume rightly or wrongly any attempt to collapse would result in a one sided loss of ships.


I've also noticed since these changes have come in that increasingly people in the alliance - even more than in the past - are resorting to hunting for targets in nullsec, its probably made things safer for people who have isolated themselves in w-space and/or don't have lots of active connections than ever before.


I don't argue that what you describe wouldn't be happening, but I disagree about it being a "radical change" of a grand scale. Based on my personal experience as part of a smaller entity in C5 space, opening into a bigger entity was an extremely rare occurence.

And I hope you also agree that going "nope" and logging off has a lot to do with attitude. Why not see if they can get a few kills? This I don't understand.

Don't have lots of active connections? Amount of wormholes are increased massively, or is that not the case in C5s? Dual-static space at least is littered with open connections.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#1950 - 2014-09-22 17:23:25 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:

Don't have lots of active connections? Amount of wormholes are increased massively, or is that not the case in C5s? Dual-static space at least is littered with open connections.


As with most things concerning wormhole spawns, etc. some days you'll have very limited connectivity, if you close your static on those days and bear or whatever your now as a generalisation safer than ever as there are less people bothering to chain collapse to find stuff to shoot at - people seem to be more inclined to use null connections more than ever to find stuff to pew rather than spend ages mapping the more complex chains or rolling the static with the extra effort involved.

As for attitude its a mixed one - we had blue-fire connect to us the other day and they still went for it despite having 4 people online and us having several times that but thats more of an exception than a rule - most people with 3-4 people online opened to someone with 20 active pilots will feel quite limited in what they can do without it being outright suicide whether that is trying to collapse the link or finding stuff to do further down the chain. In the past they could with moderate and proportionally manageable risk collapse the link and try and find something they were more suited to engaging (or just go back to bearing).
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1951 - 2014-09-22 17:42:05 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Are you guys seriously still going on about this? :D

This change was just fine, and accomplished exactly what CCP intended- making farmers less willing to seal their farmholes.

Everyone else is unaffected.




PVP yesterday. Engagement focussed around our carrier and sleip fleet vs their carrier and T3 fleet.

Long story short - pre hyperion we would have dropped our carrier into their wh and punched above our weight class for a bit. Maybe winning maybe losing, but at least we would have been fighting. Post hyperion we both swapped going into the others home wh w/ our subcaps and jumping back to stay alive. Neither side commited a capital because it would have been thrown away to the opposing fleet.

As it was we lost a sleipnir to bumping and webs. Had we put a carrier in it would have been taken by their to the dreads they put on the wh. Had they put a cap into us we would have reshiped to dreads and killed it.

So when you mean unaffected you are wrong. We had a slap fight but didn't escallate because it would have just been throwing a carrier away. This is the new norm. It's a big change. It's a bad one. Unless you have overwheling force you end up hole hugging under the shadow of your carrier. It was like hugging a HS wh except instead of concord having your back in HS it's your carrier having your back in your home c5.

We deffo didn't have enough personell to take down 2 dreads, a carrier and 5 or so assorted T3. The felt they didn't have enough to commit in our hole either. Mass/range induced standoff. It sucked.

We both gave the subcaps across the wh a go, saw it was futile and withdrew. Personally I went afk and took my wife out to dinner, one guy went to work, and another guy went for a run. This change sux!
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1952 - 2014-09-22 19:24:19 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Aiyshimin wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:

i am really quite impressed, it takes a real capacity for someone to entirely missunderstand every single argument, point and effect. After over 130 combined pages.
Glad you are ok, but you don't actually have any experience of living in a wormhole? Do you?
Because if you do I will be even more impressed with your abilities to remain so disconnected from reality.
And just moving into a C4 since hyperion does not count as experienced.


I've lived in C2>C3+HS, C2>C2+LS, C3>LS, C4>C3, C5>C3, C5>C5 in addition to the current C4>C4+C2 starting from early 2011, which was approx 2.5 years before your character was created.

I've sieged, been sieged, flown in the headline-making biggest blobs of w-space, FCd, soloed, farmed and lead a wh corp. I sure as hell do have ******* "experience" and I've literally had it with the current whiney-ass mentality on this sad excuse of a subforum.

This mass-spawn whine is the just the most ridiculous recent example of the mentality. No, it did not "kill w-space" or even radically changed it, if you are unhappy about it just pack your toys and go back to Rescuing the Damsel and do us all a favour- shut the **** up.




No, suprisingly I do not agree with you, go figure?Roll

If you do not like hearing other peoples views and experience of hyperion, why are you here?

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Scrubnbubble
If we die it's lag
#1953 - 2014-09-22 21:14:42 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Quote:
2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections

So basically a faster way for the big corps to seed caps into someone's system? Hmm...
I'm sure Lazerhawks would love that.


Lazerhawks scare me
Gunner GzR
Timber Wolves
#1954 - 2014-09-23 01:02:43 UTC
there would actually be no reason to seed caps in there as no one would live in a c7 as there is no moons and the mass is large enough to just move caps around

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
Scrubnbubble
If we die it's lag
#1955 - 2014-09-23 01:46:55 UTC
How about a C7 that you can easily fit titans through, and then the last escalation is a huge drone base like the ones you find the wrecks of in missions. It requires multiple titans and doomsday devices to take down. I'm thinking.... something along the lines of a huge base with sleepers spewing out of it, like a scene from the matrix. A place where titans go to die... pve wise.
Gunner GzR
Timber Wolves
#1956 - 2014-09-23 02:34:31 UTC
that would be interesting to say the least..

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#1957 - 2014-09-23 02:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Serendipity Lost
Folks would just log of their farming caps/fleet. The guy w/ the most stuff gets more stuff. TBH AU would have the advantage due to TZ and it would get less appealing as the earth spins passed down time.

You want a wh c7 make it a wandering wh w/ no statick. 8 bil mass, no sites and no moons. Or maybe a random static. Name the system king of the hill.

If you want titan gameplay and free isk... spoon up w/ cfc. Introducing a c7 would just mean more isk for bigger groups. That's it, plain and simple.

If you're too big and too awesome for small gang wh stuff... Have some class like SYJ did and go to LS and play w/ your toys. I have a lot of respect for those guys going to where their game is played instead of trying to bend wh to their play style/needs. And.... they seem to be having fun/success.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1958 - 2014-09-23 03:42:09 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
I think the idea of a C7 is going in the wrong direction, we need to be encouraging people into wormhole space, not giving Null a new incursion that they don't want to do anyway.

There needs to be gameplay that is rewarding for individuals and small corps, not provide gameplay that ONLY rewards the big groups, although the big groups need activities for their induviduals too.

The frigate wormholes have provided far less than they are capable of, if they led to Frigate wormhole space, balanced around highly rewarding individual and small group discovery then we may be getting somewhere. That would be far better C7 space than just "bigger and meaner." And both large and small groups would find it a lot more fun than just worrying the miners and missioners in null when it's quiet.

Bigger is not always better.Lol bring wormhole space back to life, lets fill it back up with people. Being able to earn well in order to lose it again is a lot more fun than struggling to replace losses. And Hyperion has done nothing to help that.

We asked for more to do and instead got more difficuilt to do what we could before.

Hyperion was not bad, it gave us more connectivity, unfortunately all that did was show us how empty wormhole space had become and helped make it emptier.

Whilst there is a sort of "disgust" with the concept of "farming" in wormhole space one needs to be careful not to remove the source of income for those who just want to play and spend that income here.

One of the best things that could be done, would be to new "products" to seek out, and to introduce new ships that are superbly capable in wormholes and that are as weak as a normal ship outside in KS, that needed these products to create and build, to suck that income back up. Not Bigger, Just more suited for our environment

Thereby boosting wormhole income but keeping it from distorting the outside economy.

CCP when you decide to balance income generated from an area, directly or indirectly, remember, Poverty can be described as "interesting" but never as fun.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#1959 - 2014-09-23 08:30:56 UTC
In the end no matter what we were going to do CCP would not have listened.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
Mindo Junde
Somnium Vita
#1960 - 2014-09-23 17:53:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ahost Gceo wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone.
I want to post to remind you guys that we're not ignoring this thread, we're continuing to follow all the feedback on the Hyperion changes, as well as watching metrics extremely closely.

I understand that for some of you the fact that I'm posting in this thread without announcing something new may be frustrating, but we also don't want to give the impression that we've stopped reading.

We can't promise that we'll always agree with each of you on every particular issue, but we will never stop accepting feedback and re-evaluating the state of the game.

If you can, run some active statistics and see if the amount of jumps in w-space has declined since this update as people have left. Definitely will be interesting to see what destruction you have wrought.


I'm watching all those numbers very carefully. We've also been sharing a lot of stats with the CSM (The CSM in general and Corbexx in particular have been very helpful in working with us to ensure we watch all the right things), and we may be able to put some of them into a blog or something similar for public consumption at some point.


Really? 3 weeks and not a peep. Its bad enough you s**t all over the one area of the sandbox that CCP said was working without this condescending 'Don't worry we care crap'