Wormholes

But the flip side also applies - small groups are utterly ****** if they open into a larger group who is active and they want to close - whereas the bigger corps can send in a dozen jamming tengus, etc. and keep you from pointing/webbing the capital on its way back to the hole if they really wanted.

Plus the point I and other have been trying to make in that the larger majority of the time those people simply aren't there to bring in lokis and rapiers, etc. and catch me collapsing - while I'm not the most prolific WH collapser in eve over the last almost 5 years I've collapsed 100s of WHs and so far to my recollection only twice has anyone even been there to try and catch us - one of those times ending badly for them as half their forces jumped ahead to try and catch the orca and the orca coming back cut the other half including their logis off.

Fixed

It doesn't matter at this point. I don't think ccp has any plans on rolling this back no matter what we say. So some people will grumble but adapt. Some will grumble and leave. Of course the main reason I have opposed this change is BECAUSE I dont want people to have a reason to leave. But it is what it is now.

If your sitting in a bucket of crap just because you get used to it dose not make it any less of a bucket of crap.

They asked for well reasoned ideas and explanations of why we did not like the changes and which ones.
They were put forth several times in this thread with great reasoning why and it comes down to the fact that the only two things about last patch were disliked or just useless

Mass jump distances are greatly disliked due to it forcing some players out of j space or just going inactive

Frig holes are frowned at and kinda useless to a point although i have seen some corps using them to get fights.


The ball is now in ccp's court. I really wish some of the actual DEV"S Would Create a few Toons and move into Wormholes and live here for a year or two. That is the only way to see what and were we need stuff Since they don't Listen to The Pilots That live there .

Fozzie might be bored running levle 4s in his Kronos.

Mr. Dreekus! Show me your face!

Just wanted to thank CCP once again.
Today we had the luck of rolling for 6 hours, to only see 2~3 combat anomalies with 4~6 wormholes in them, wanna know what happened ? No farm, no pvp, NOTHING. And we just rolled another sh**hole. Another day to log off at the POS with hands full of nothing. (yeah, we got to kill 1 afk domi in the morning, but for that I should consider +3h of rolling).

I'm just curious, how it is even possible, having a WH CSM moving out of WH's, CCP, do you even understand that even OUR representative can't continue to be in WH because of the sh***y changes?

This, except with one change. Clone toons from a specific corp. and remember to assign at lease two toons per real person.

We rolled our static c5 several times yesterday and I was the dread pilot. We used the bounce point and sling shot tactic and i have to say that it was quite enjoyable. Yes it took longer than it did before hyperion but I think it's good that the process is a bit more complicated and risky.

As far as risk goes, you are only in danger when rolling incoming or old wormholes, which is only a big deal for people who want to close themselves off. However, if the rewards gained by closing yourself off aren't big enough, people aren't going to take the risk in the first place.

I don't think the mass based spawn mechanics should be rolled back. I think more rewards should be added to balance the risk.

Why didn't you immediately roll the connection? Did they already have probes out when you connected?

SSC aren't that scary

That's where you are missing it. I don't want to be molested by a priest and then handed a bag of jelly beans. A bag of jelly beans doesn't make it OK.

"As far as risk goes, you are only in danger...." You don't get risk. The risk involved in rolling a wh is a fixed value. That fixed value is the value of the ships you roll with. That risk is incurred the second said ship is in warp to the wh.

What you are discussing is safety margin. Think of it as the % chance you are going to get away with rolling the wh without losing the assets you are rolling with. We could discuss safety margin for quite some time - there are a lot of variables that could possibly go into it. I'll only address 2 here.

Safety Margin #1 - The guys going for your ships will have to go 'all in' to ensure they get you. This used to be a relatively large safety margin. Not many corps were willing to or had the assets to go 'all in' and wonk someone in their home wh knowing the only thing at their back is a closed wh. This is the safety margin that was TOTALLY REMOVED with the mass range stuff. This is why a lot of folks are pissed. Risk was shared between both parties. 'We're bringing the ships to the wh to roll it, but you may have to go all in to take them from us' There are also ramifications when jumping in to a wh for pvp, but that's a different discussion.

Safety Margin #2 - You are putting various amounts of safety margin on both incoming and old wh. I'll voice what I think your assumptions are. Incoming - they get there first and can cloak up a single loki on the wh (which post hyperion is all that is needed to tackle your loot pinata... er rolling capital. Old wh I'm guessing are pretty much the same - there is a lot of time for someone to cloak up a single ship that will hold your roller until the wonking fleet arrives. The values each corp assign to these factors are based on a lot of things. Your corp size (guys on line at the time of the decision) has a lot to do with the value you put on that . What you know it to be isn't by definition what another guy knows it to be.

Where you state that 'you are only in danger when rolling incoming and old wh'... do you offer some form of free SRP for ships lost rolling fresh wh to go along w/ your guarantee of no danger? Where do I sign up?