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WHY THE JIMINY CHRISTMAS IS THE MYRMIDON MISSING A SLOT?
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Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Pandemic Legion
#41 - 2011-12-10 21:37:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Khrage wrote:
Goose99 wrote:
Or put in AC. You know, the Winmatar weapon, to win. AC Ferox ftw. Not so much beauty though.P


all you do is say winmatar wins wins wins no matter what
you've got duct tape on your mind you can never get enough
and everytime you say anything about eve
everybody just says yeah yeah yeah
winmatar wins
sure whatever
winmater wins
everything else sucks
cause you don't contribute at all at all at all
and if anything but rust undocks...

... i think you get my point.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

-Liang


Jesus Christ Liang I love to hate you. You're my favorite person on the forums because of how much of a proper **** you can be. <3
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#42 - 2011-12-10 21:38:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
How about a compromise? The myrmidon gets it's missing fitting slot (anything but a high slot preferably) along with a little extra pg and cpu, and only 5mbs extra bandwidth and 10m3 extra dronebay storage. Perhaps if i said "Pretty please?"
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#43 - 2011-12-10 21:41:58 UTC
Jesus Rambo wrote:

Jesus Christ Liang I love to hate you. You're my favorite person on the forums because of how much of a proper **** you can be. <3


Its only until I get drunk. Then I'm "the life of the party". Too bad I never remember my antics the next day... Oops

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jesus Rambo
Criterion.
Pandemic Legion
#44 - 2011-12-10 21:57:06 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Jesus Rambo wrote:

Jesus Christ Liang I love to hate you. You're my favorite person on the forums because of how much of a proper **** you can be. <3


Its only until I get drunk. Then I'm "the life of the party". Too bad I never remember my antics the next day... Oops

-Liang


Those are the best nights. I want to know you :P
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#45 - 2011-12-10 22:08:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Fon Revedhort
5 meds + 6 lows = 11

Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10

If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.

Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...

I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries...

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2011-12-10 22:28:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Fon Revedhort wrote:
5 meds + 6 lows = 11

Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10

If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.

Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...

I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries...


I too, would like to arbitraily ignore an entire set of fitting slots to prove a faulty point.

Myrm: 6 high slots / 6 turrets (based of off using 5 heavy drones which it cannot dp anymore...)
Harbi: 8 highs / 7 turrets
Drake: 8 highs / 7 launchers
Cane: 8 highs / 6 turrets AND 2 launchers

Based off of the above alone (lol), the myrm is now missing TWO fitting slots...

Also, I flew myrmidons when they first came out, they were terrors...

Since then, the bandwidth nerf came along as well as the drone shield regen nerf (no more insta-docking/undocking your drones to full shields).

Sensor dampener nerf had nothing to do with myrms alone so I have no idea why you would bring them up unless you're using them as an 'I've been playing for who gives a crap how long and therefore my point is somehow more valid because of it' referrence.

The insta-shieldrecharge-docking combined with the sensor dampeners, along with any/all other docking games and being able to multi damp people down to less than web range were the real problems.
Shivus Tao
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2011-12-10 22:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Shivus Tao
It's true that myrms were OP back in the day, but a great deal has changed since then. Certain balancing issues at the time were necessary, but should be re-evaluated when certain other aspects of the game change. Otherwise you get previously powerful ships locked into a role of total uselessness after other ships get improved in some way independent of the initial rebalancing.

Edit: Also in fairness, canes don't usually use those two high launcher slots. They fit neuts instead which are surprisingly effective at nullifying one of the myrmidon's bonuses.
Nor Tzestu
Dos Pollos Hermanos
#48 - 2011-12-10 22:41:14 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Shivus Tao wrote:
The myrm indeed needs to be able to actually use 5 heavies again to even be useful. Medium drones don't cut it. Give it 125 bandwidth and 150 or 175 drone bay and it will be feared in the same way as the hurricane, harbinger, and drake without being overpowered.

Yeah… Drake-level tank + 750 DPS isn't over the top at all and actually puts it on par with the Drake…

Lol Humour.


Who does more DPS at 70km? :P

-Liang


The "drake lvl tank" is niche active rep that's extremely vulnerable to neut and increasing worthless as blob size grows.

The "750 dps" is at short range with unbonused guns with most of it being drones that get killed, that is, if you remove dual/trip rep tank to fit dmg mods to buff those unbonused gun dps.

Even with 75mbit bandwidth increased to 125, Myrm is still crap outside of very specialized niche, under specialized situations.


Or you could do what most people do when they say drake level tank. And you know...shield tank it. I realize it's your schtick to be deliberately obtuse in almost all things, but if you could refrain from sounding so clueless at times it would go a long way. How about you go eft warrior up a passive shield tanked Myrm then come back once you semi understand what your talking about.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#49 - 2011-12-10 22:43:48 UTC
I want my high agility, nos damp 5 heavy myrmidon back thanks. Not that I think it was in any way balanced.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Emoclew
BAMF's
#50 - 2011-12-10 23:23:15 UTC
Nor Tzestu wrote:
[quote=Goose99][quote=Liang Nuren]
Or you could do what most people do when they say drake level tank. And you know...shield tank it. I realize it's your schtick to be deliberately obtuse in almost all things, but if you could refrain from sounding so clueless at times it would go a long way. How about you go eft warrior up a passive shield tanked Myrm then come back once you semi understand what your talking about.


feisty
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2011-12-10 23:25:29 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
I want my high agility, nos damp 5 heavy myrmidon back thanks. Not that I think it was in any way balanced.


Excellent point. Everything that made the myrmidon OP has been nerfed.

Agility? Nope, standardized, and not included in the hybrid buffs.
Nos? Nope, better use a cap booster or two (bye bye meds) and neuts.
Five heavy drones? Nope, so sayeth the bandwidth.
Sensor damps? Nerfed to uselessness, get a tracking disruptor? Oh wait, you've either got cap boosters or shield mods there, nevermind.
Instant drone shield recharge? Nope, hope you brought sparez.
Nanos? Kiss multiple low slots goodbye to be close to 'lithe and agile'.


So now that we've seen all the things that when combined made the myrmidon of old OP nerfed, why the hell are we not trying to un-nerf it?
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#52 - 2011-12-11 00:07:58 UTC
Wylee Coyote wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
5 meds + 6 lows = 11

Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10

If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.

Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...

I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries...


I too, would like to arbitraily ignore an entire set of fitting slots to prove a faulty point.

Myrm: 6 high slots / 6 turrets (based of off using 5 heavy drones which it cannot dp anymore...)
Harbi: 8 highs / 7 turrets
Drake: 8 highs / 7 launchers
Cane: 8 highs / 6 turrets AND 2 launchers

Based off of the above alone (lol), the myrm is now missing TWO fitting slots...


Ok, as to drone bays:

Cane - 40 m3
Binger - 50 m3
Drake - 25 m3

Myrm - 150 m3

It swaps 2 highs for 1 med and 100 m3. That's a very decent exchange, I'd say.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2011-12-11 00:22:45 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Wylee Coyote wrote:
Fon Revedhort wrote:
5 meds + 6 lows = 11

Drake: 6 meds + 4 lows = 10
Harbinger: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10
Hurricane: 4 meds + 6 lows = 10

If anything, Myrmydon has already got 1 extra slot for no particular reason.

Drones are there to do damage. Large drone bay means the ship has to give up some highs in exchange. Just like it currenly is. By why give it an extra (11th) slot in mid/low? A mistery...

I guess you guys don't remember how OP myrms were back in the days of powerful RSD's and their 5 sentries...


I too, would like to arbitraily ignore an entire set of fitting slots to prove a faulty point.

Myrm: 6 high slots / 6 turrets (based of off using 5 heavy drones which it cannot dp anymore...)
Harbi: 8 highs / 7 turrets
Drake: 8 highs / 7 launchers
Cane: 8 highs / 6 turrets AND 2 launchers

Based off of the above alone (lol), the myrm is now missing TWO fitting slots...


Ok, as to drone bays:

Cane - 40 m3
Binger - 50 m3
Drake - 25 m3

Myrm - 150 m3

It swaps 2 highs for 1 med and 100 m3. That's a very decent exchange, I'd say.


I too, would like to arbitrarily ignore both bandwidth and ship bonuses to come to a faulty conclusion.

Cane: 30 Mbs / 30m^3 bonuses to projectiles.
Harbi: 50 Mbs / 50 m^3 bonuses to lasers.
Drake: 25 Mbs / 25 m^3 bonuses to missiles and shields.

Myrm: 75 Mbs / 150 m^3 bonuses to drones and active armor repairing.


Myrm can't use all of it's available bonused weapon systems at the same time, while the other BCs can use all of their bonused weapon systems AND all their available drones at the same time.

That seems fishy to me...
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#54 - 2011-12-11 00:28:06 UTC
So what? Domies can't utilize their 375m3 bays at once, too.

Your posts are of great corelation your killboard presence. Both are meaningless.

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2011-12-11 00:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Wylee Coyote
Fon Revedhort wrote:
So what? Domies can't utilize their 375m3 bays at once, too.

Your posts are of great corelation your killboard presence. Both are meaningless.



Thank you for showing everyone exactly why you have no business posting here. Run along now, the adults are conversing.


Edit: I'm going to be nice and tell you why, Domies have ANotHeR BonuSEd wEAPOn system they can fully use. Hope that helped...
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War
#56 - 2011-12-11 06:47:24 UTC
Domi just happens to have hybrid bonus instead of repping one. That's like Prophecy vs Brutix comparison, where Prophecy receives a tanking bonus while Brutix gets a damage one.

Now it might be worth discussing whether myrm needs or doesn't need 125m3 bandwidth, but stating it lacks slots is plain dumb. So, by the very same dumb logic, domi lacks slots, too?

"Being supporters of free speech and free and open [CSM] elections... we removed Fon Revedhort from eligibility". CCP, April 2013.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2011-12-11 09:01:25 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Domi just happens to have hybrid bonus instead of repping one. That's like Prophecy vs Brutix comparison, where Prophecy receives a tanking bonus while Brutix gets a damage one.

Now it might be worth discussing whether myrm needs or doesn't need 125m3 bandwidth, but stating it lacks slots is plain dumb. So, by the very same dumb logic, domi lacks slots, too?

SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW WRONG YOU ARE.


I'M STILL MAD.
I'VE BEEN HEADBUTTING A BRICK WALL FOR 4 HOURS BUT THE MYRM DOESN'T HAVE THE SLOT IS REQUIRES YET.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2011-12-11 09:17:47 UTC
since when the myrm underpowered?
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2011-12-11 12:33:31 UTC
Look at it from another point of view:

What if the Myrm has the correct number of slots, but the other three have one too many?
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#60 - 2011-12-11 13:23:03 UTC
Fon Revedhort wrote:
Domi just happens to have hybrid bonus instead of repping one. That's like Prophecy vs Brutix comparison, where Prophecy receives a tanking bonus while Brutix gets a damage one.

Now it might be worth discussing whether myrm needs or doesn't need 125m3 bandwidth, but stating it lacks slots is plain dumb. So, by the very same dumb logic, domi lacks slots, too?

It's not worth wasting your time with these idiots.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)