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[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

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Chicken Exroofer
Regional Assault and Recon
#1841 - 2014-09-04 13:18:55 UTC
Reasoned discussion resulting in something we can agree on.


I need a minute to get back up off the floor lol!

But ya, see how easily we thought of a possible idea that would increase activity, new player retention, and content in general?
One that would not be gamebreaking for a large part of a particular Eve community?

Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1842 - 2014-09-04 13:42:58 UTC
CCP has two main problems, both of their own making.

the first is the horrendous lack of communication over the last month+ starting with people stumbling over the changes on sisi by accident through to multiple threads locked or even deleted, even official ones, to being shunted round from one thread to anothet. not to mention passive aggressive posts from devs.

then we get to the real issue and I think why there is so much discussion for the real reason for the change. the devblog did actually say why these changes were being made. but when the wh community said that these changes will not in any way accomplish those goals we were ignored for a month. we were/are right because we have/are you know, actually living there so we are confused.

if you have a goal and near enough 90% of the 2k+ posts tells you you will not accomplish these goals, why implement the change anyways? Hubris? Pride? Incompetence? Dont give a ****? lying about the stated goals?

thats why we think that you dont want people living in whs, or want to nerf wh income, or are just following nullsec wishes(they seem happy enough about this) or you just plain hate wormholers.

but whatever. pretty soon it wont have anthing to do with me.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#1843 - 2014-09-04 14:00:52 UTC
Quote:
but whatever. pretty soon it wont have anthing to do with me.

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1844 - 2014-09-04 14:00:56 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Dalron wrote:
Here's my take on what these changes will happen with these changes.

Bigger corps will continue pretty much as they are now for PvE, some will get caught rolling wormholes slightly more than others but overall pvp probabily wont actually change that much.

Smaller corps will start losing out more and more. Longer times to roll wormholes, more risk rolling wormholes, and more incoming wormholes (not just the frig wormholes but the hundreds of new C4 wormholes that are appearing everywhere). They will start losing ISK income and getting fed up. They will start to move out, slowly at first but it will continue.

Bigger wormhole corps will look for pvp but the targets will start to become scarcer as corps move out. So they will start to target the smaller corps they would previously have overlooked just so they can get kills. Some of these corps will start to leave too.

Bigger PVP oriented WH corps will leave once they have nothing to do.

We might get a cyclic occupation as prices rise people move back in to take advantage and then the cycle repeats, or a simple lower occupational level might stabilize.


This is pretty much spot on to what i expect to happen.


It is interesting that 12 minutes after you, a CSM rep, and someone that knows wh mechanics backwards and forwards, posts that this is a stupid idea and the ramifications are playing out as predicted, the dev responsible for this goes into full damage control.

We all know that the dev in question NEVER backs out a change he makes, because he knows all aspects of the game, even ones he has never played, better than any lowly player. It will be very interesting to see what he does to mitigate the damage he has wrought, or if his hubris will yet again overcome common sense and he does nothing, but say "yeah, we are listening to your concerns."



Please do not turn this into "us VS them, if Fozzie discovers that the idea has not worked out the way he hoped, welcome the realisation, and that he has understood.

There is NO value in driving someone into a corner where whatever he does is a loss.

There can be no misunderstanding, of the players views, and the metrics will make things even clearer.

He clearly wanted the best result, if it is not this time, well there is always tomorrow.

But to Fozzie, please roll this one away, and most of the WH residents will thank you for that.
And we all move forward in the same direction, together. Give us the chance to get over things, please.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Gunner GzR
Timber Wolves
#1845 - 2014-09-04 14:01:23 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
CCP has two main problems, both of their own making.

the first is the horrendous lack of communication over the last month+ starting with people stumbling over the changes on sisi by accident through to multiple threads locked or even deleted, even official ones, to being shunted round from one thread to anothet. not to mention passive aggressive posts from devs.

then we get to the real issue and I think why there is so much discussion for the real reason for the change. the devblog did actually say why these changes were being made. but when the wh community said that these changes will not in any way accomplish those goals we were ignored for a month. we were/are right because we have/are you know, actually living there so we are confused.

if you have a goal and near enough 90% of the 2k+ posts tells you you will not accomplish these goals, why implement the change anyways? Hubris? Pride? Incompetence? Dont give a ****? lying about the stated goals?

thats why we think that you dont want people living in whs, or want to nerf wh income, or are just following nullsec wishes(they seem happy enough about this) or you just plain hate wormholers.

but whatever. pretty soon it wont have anthing to do with me.



Very good post

which is a lot of the questions we are asking amongst ourselves.

I also believe that the lack of communication and stats are fueling them mob's anger..,

SHOW US STATS ..DATA/GRAPHS CCP...GIVE US INTEL

NOT JUST POST THAT YES WE ARE WATCHING.

This Gives us nothing to look over and analyze ourselves. Our corp participation is slowly Fading and its due to frustration with the game and you ccp. Yes i said you because of the lack of info and the feeling that we were just flat ignored on our input..

Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
OMEGA REDUX
Last Resort Inn
#1846 - 2014-09-04 14:45:35 UTC
No one is going to giving you stats this early into a patch so quit asking for them like it's going to happen. Corbexx might get some him being CSM and all that but the rest of us need to ask for something realistic if you want numbers.
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1847 - 2014-09-04 20:21:30 UTC
corbexx wrote:
Dalron wrote:
Here's my take on what these changes will happen with these changes.

Bigger corps will continue pretty much as they are now for PvE, some will get caught rolling wormholes slightly more than others but overall pvp probabily wont actually change that much.

Smaller corps will start losing out more and more. Longer times to roll wormholes, more risk rolling wormholes, and more incoming wormholes (not just the frig wormholes but the hundreds of new C4 wormholes that are appearing everywhere). They will start losing ISK income and getting fed up. They will start to move out, slowly at first but it will continue.

Bigger wormhole corps will look for pvp but the targets will start to become scarcer as corps move out. So they will start to target the smaller corps they would previously have overlooked just so they can get kills. Some of these corps will start to leave too.

Bigger PVP oriented WH corps will leave once they have nothing to do.

We might get a cyclic occupation as prices rise people move back in to take advantage and then the cycle repeats, or a simple lower occupational level might stabilize.


This is pretty much spot on to what i expect to happen.


So CCP s idea of increasing the reward is kick everyone out until nanoribons go back up!?

Can this be applied to null sec please?
AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#1848 - 2014-09-04 21:27:30 UTC
Moloney wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Dalron wrote:
Here's my take on what these changes will happen with these changes.

Bigger corps will continue pretty much as they are now for PvE, some will get caught rolling wormholes slightly more than others but overall pvp probabily wont actually change that much.

Smaller corps will start losing out more and more. Longer times to roll wormholes, more risk rolling wormholes, and more incoming wormholes (not just the frig wormholes but the hundreds of new C4 wormholes that are appearing everywhere). They will start losing ISK income and getting fed up. They will start to move out, slowly at first but it will continue.

Bigger wormhole corps will look for pvp but the targets will start to become scarcer as corps move out. So they will start to target the smaller corps they would previously have overlooked just so they can get kills. Some of these corps will start to leave too.

Bigger PVP oriented WH corps will leave once they have nothing to do.

We might get a cyclic occupation as prices rise people move back in to take advantage and then the cycle repeats, or a simple lower occupational level might stabilize.


This is pretty much spot on to what i expect to happen.


So CCP s idea of increasing the reward is kick everyone out until nanoribons go back up!?

Can this be applied to null sec please?


See the 2010 Sanctum nerf.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org
Winthorp
#1849 - 2014-09-04 21:41:50 UTC
You know people are angry when Autumnwind starts posting in threads.
CivilWars
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#1850 - 2014-09-04 21:45:32 UTC
Yeah, nerf Tech...oh wait, they did, and people still live in null sec.

Hidden Fremen liked your forum post:

Jack Miton liked your forum post:
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#1851 - 2014-09-05 03:42:44 UTC
Not too sure why peeps are complaining. This change has caused us a very little amount problems. A little more a of pain to roll... but meh, nothing we wormholers cant overcome!

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
Faren Shalni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1852 - 2014-09-05 08:21:43 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
Not too sure why peeps are complaining. This change has caused us a very little amount problems. A little more a of pain to roll... but meh, nothing we wormholers cant overcome!


Yes we WHers will overcome it but the ones who cant?

W-space is now at risk of being deserted save for the few who can live in it. We will adapt but now where will the content be? Already our corp gets most of its PvP content from hunting in null because (Even with a WH chain that's 50 whs deep) we cant get PvP due to the lack of people in W-space

So Much Space
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1853 - 2014-09-05 09:30:05 UTC
Faren Shalni wrote:
Andiedeath wrote:
Not too sure why peeps are complaining. This change has caused us a very little amount problems. A little more a of pain to roll... but meh, nothing we wormholers cant overcome!


Yes we WHers will overcome it but the ones who cant?

W-space is now at risk of being deserted save for the few who can live in it. We will adapt but now where will the content be? Already our corp gets most of its PvP content from hunting in null because (Even with a WH chain that's 50 whs deep) we cant get PvP due to the lack of people in W-space


You got a point there. its all fine and dandy saying 'were the baddest mofos in wh space' but when there's no content because you are also the ONLY mofos in wh space then what is the point? you get more and more consistant small gang pvp in low. if you know who not to shoot you wont get hot dropped too often and you can make as much or more isk with less stress and risk in hs incurtions and you just need one alt for that.

end of the day you can be pro-change all you want and call everyone else whatever names you want. if people decided its not worth it to live in wh space anymore then that's it. wh space had a very fragile ecosystem, prone to failcascades implosions, politics, drama, etc. but it survived for years. That's mostly gone now.

A very unique part of eve, heck of online gaming is probably gone forever. and if you dont think that's a damn shame then maybe you were in wh space for the wrong reasons.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1854 - 2014-09-05 09:47:42 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Anize Oramara wrote:
Faren Shalni wrote:
Andiedeath wrote:
Not too sure why peeps are complaining. This change has caused us a very little amount problems. A little more a of pain to roll... but meh, nothing we wormholers cant overcome!


Yes we WHers will overcome it but the ones who cant?

W-space is now at risk of being deserted save for the few who can live in it. We will adapt but now where will the content be? Already our corp gets most of its PvP content from hunting in null because (Even with a WH chain that's 50 whs deep) we cant get PvP due to the lack of people in W-space


You got a point there. its all fine and dandy saying 'were the baddest mofos in wh space' but when there's no content because you are also the ONLY mofos in wh space then what is the point? you get more and more consistant small gang pvp in low. if you know who not to shoot you wont get hot dropped too often and you can make as much or more isk with less stress and risk in hs incurtions and you just need one alt for that.

end of the day you can be pro-change all you want and call everyone else whatever names you want. if people decided its not worth it to live in wh space anymore then that's it. wh space had a very fragile ecosystem, prone to failcascades implosions, politics, drama, etc. but it survived for years. That's mostly gone now.

A very unique part of eve, heck of online gaming is probably gone forever. and if you dont think that's a damn shame then maybe you were in wh space for the wrong reasons.


Nicely put, as to the adapt or die philosophy, lots of people in the real world do exactly this too, because they have to.

They live in places called slums and favelas.

So, to those who say this, please tell me how turning our home into a slum is a positive experience?

We have one massive advantage over those condemned to live out their life in such conditions, we can move out.

Out of the slum, and if we don't like it there, out of the game altogether.

Roll back the Mass spawn, and the rest can find it's place. It is like disease, remove it and you do not get a paradise overnight, but it becomes less of a nightmare to live in.

Without? Good luck trying to somehow force players to remain, let alone trying to encourage more in.

You do not cure acne by giving the patient smallpox.

Whilst it certainly makes life more interesting, "may you live in interesting times" is generally regarded as a curse, it is not the "interesting" you were hoping to achieve.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Moloney
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1855 - 2014-09-05 11:20:05 UTC
Some will adapt. Most will leave.

In the end it's still a change that does not provide anything and is not wanted.

No content & no isk for excessive risk = Poor formula for retaining players.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#1856 - 2014-09-05 11:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Andiedeath
LOL! No i'm already seeing PVP groups move into wormholes from K Space... I don't think there will be a problem. We have been out of our oriiginal Class 2 WH for a week and already a small PVP group from K Space wants to buy it. Yes it will take a few weeks although things to settle but I reckon it will be all good soon.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public
rofflesausage
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1857 - 2014-09-05 12:22:59 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
LOL! No i'm already seeing PVP groups move into wormholes from K Space... I don't think there will be a problem. We have been out of our oriiginal Class 2 WH for a week and already a small PVP group from K Space wants to buy it. Yes it will take a few weeks although things to settle but I reckon it will be all good soon.


Oh yeah?
So which change exactly made them decide to move in?
Petra Hakaari
Stalking Wolfpack
#1858 - 2014-09-05 14:25:01 UTC
Andiedeath wrote:
LOL! No i'm already seeing PVP groups move into wormholes from K Space... I don't think there will be a problem. We have been out of our oriiginal Class 2 WH for a week and already a small PVP group from K Space wants to buy it. Yes it will take a few weeks although things to settle but I reckon it will be all good soon.

Lemme guess... C2 with a static to highsec.


Dude you clearly don't understand that the issue affects the real WH business, C5/C6...

Because tities .
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#1859 - 2014-09-05 14:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Petra Hakaari wrote:
Andiedeath wrote:
LOL! No i'm already seeing PVP groups move into wormholes from K Space... I don't think there will be a problem. We have been out of our oriiginal Class 2 WH for a week and already a small PVP group from K Space wants to buy it. Yes it will take a few weeks although things to settle but I reckon it will be all good soon.

Lemme guess... C2 with a static to highsec.


Dude you clearly don't understand that the issue affects the real WH business, C5/C6...



Well maybe they like playing station games on the HS?

Whenever there is a disaster, theres always someone to pull something out of the wreckage, and they are happy with the smallest personal gain.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#1860 - 2014-09-05 14:59:00 UTC
Heh...

So there's this webcomic I read and the last two pages of it (1011 and 1012) seemed rather pertinent.

http://mysticrevolution.keenspot.com/?cid=1011

Heck, even the speech the chick in the last frame on the linked page gives fits so well it's hilarious.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3