Science & Industry

This is a slight cross post from my F&I Thread:

The issue isn't just compression. The issue is that there is a huge demand for minerals in nullsec, and we have no viable way of even getting close to supplying our minerals locally.

The suggestions above are basically spoon feeding more information to highsec trying to get them to look at the actual profitability of mining/compressing. Why would this "profitability" feature be implemented for compression and not expanded to production?

Compression is just in the cross hairs because that is the only way to source the minerals we need. Crius pushed production out of hub systems and is gradually forcing markets to form in nullsec, yet mineral supply is still centralized around major trade hubs (Jita). Even if we did strat op mining ops to clear Deklein of all it's ore, we'd still be short on key low end minerals and would absolutely crash what's left of the high end mineral market.

There is no problem. You lacking Ore is just fine.


to

A.) There is no shortage of supply in EvE for any item that is not hard capped. You can either pay more and provide an immediate incentive or you can wait if you think the inventive is high enough and people should come around. In any case the market is right and you are not.

B.) If that is a problem for you, you have the ingame tools to solve them.

C.) That is reinforcing my point. If you need Low-Ends in 0.0 you probably should pay a premium for it in 0.0 (or in highsec for the logistical effort). That way your miners might stop mining Arkonor and start mining Veldspar solving a few problems on the way.

You have viable industry now in 0.0, but that sword cuts both ways. By current design you can't have nullsec production costs and highsec supply costs. Personally i think that is a good thing. As i said, start recruiting miners.

Theory; Mex/Isogen shortage is partially due to the loot reprocessing nerf.

To verify, would need to figure out how large percentage of Mex/Isogen supply in Jita used to come from reprocessed loot rather than ore.

Makes perfect sense tbh. With lowsec being the most dangerous region for miners, the prices have to go up a lot more i suspect before people bother to go there with a prospect. But wouldn't it be nice if they would actually eventually do that?

one of the main things i have noticed is that people are saying that there is not enough supply of compressed ore. the main reason for this is that many small mining gangs don't have access to compression arrays. they either don't want the hassle of setting up a pos or if they have access it costs them a large chunk of their margin. refining was the old compression and all the miner had to do was pay for transport (at most) now it is compression and transport. if you want this fixed then either show that it is easy to set up a pos (and not too expensive) or ask ccp to do the unthinkable and allow the last non combat capital access to hisec ( or allow orcas to compress). with the ship option it would not take long for the compressed ore to flow to jita in large qauntities. even small gangs could see the sense of getting a rorqual and then ccp would actually see rorquals in a belt. obviously most small gangs already have orcas.

Yeah, this is a solid compromise.

For those worried that allowing the orca to compress would (further) step on the rorqual's toes, fear not -- CCP has stated that the rorqual is next in line for rebalancing. Given the previous track record, I'm putting pretty good odds on a significant curve ball for the rorqual that will set it apart.

I find this thread very interesting. It is quite similar to many of the threads in the WH forum.

CCP has changed the mechanics of the game and it is having an impact on the way many in null sec play the game. Instead of asking CCP to change the game to meet null sec needs and effecting everyone else I respectfully suggest null try to adapt to the changes.

Let us see, how do I now get all the minerals I need to build my fleet of capital ships?

I could slow down production.
I could hire miners to mine the low ends exclusively in null sec (better pay them appropriately). Yes, that means anomalies, combat sites, belts (shudder) of many systems.
I could hold mining ops in low sec.
I could take control of some low sec systems for the sole purpose of mining them.
I could hire hi sec miner corps to produce what I need.
I could hire hi sec transport outfits to haul and compress.
I could, wait for it, mine in WH space while linked to my null sec systems.
I could hire WH corps to mine and transport for me.

I could do any combination of the above WITHOUT affecting the rest of the game by insisting on a mechanics change.

Compression mechanics as is is just fine. Time to expand your horizons and possibilities.

Na, just looking at the obvious. Seems that the only education required around here is among the null sec industrialists :)

For a small corp they likely don't have an orca (if a small POS is expensive an orca is eyewatering).
Lets say they have decent skills so exhumers is at 4 and can use T1 mining crystals. They've been ganked once or twice so they aren't in a hulk. They have somebody who is hauling their cans for them, it's an alt account so "it is free" and it lets them just sit and mine.

A reasonably durable skiff/mackinaw with skills at 4 mines roughly 1,000 m3 per second. They are mining veldspar because we are talking about people mining low-ends, ISK wise Plagioclase ends up 20% higher roughly. Under these conditions each miner earns roughly 170k ISK per minute or a bit over 10 mill per hour mining Veld continuously.

A small POS is 60 mill. The compression array about 35 mil. Fuel blocks are 160k per hour. Assuming they are aware that they can simply leave the POS offline most of the time and just run it for 2 hours a day the fuel is negligible. The hardware is going to take them 10 man hours to acquire so probably a whole evenings worth for a 2 or 3 man outfit.

Would you commit an evening for you and a couple of friends to buy something you don't really understand, is a little bit daunting because everybody says that the UI for it is unfriendly and that doesn't seem to benefit you much? Sure it makes the ore easier to move but then so does refining it. And they can refine it pretty well if they have T1 or T2 crystals in their strip miners. Or they can can work towards that 80 hours per month they need to be able to plex their account and then use the extra ISK for skillbooks etc. while they skill up for whatever.