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Hacking Mini Game = Biggest Pile Of Crap Ever

First post
Author
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#101 - 2014-09-02 10:52:28 UTC
Gilbaron wrote:
It's not something that is coming anytime soon. It's something ccp has experimented with. It's exploration into the unknown territory of avatar gameplay. Right now, the focus is on spaceship gameplay and there is a mountain of work to do before ccp as a company can afford reducing eve-spaceship development to increase eve-avatar development

Not necessarily. Dust was announced on PC. It's like PvP avatars. I'm completely laic from software side ofc, i don't know if EvE and PC version of Dust can be merged, but if they can, what keeps you from implement non combat activity?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Flamespar
WarRavens
#102 - 2014-09-02 11:02:40 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
I'm curious (without wanting to raise hopes) if some of your 20% time has been used to look at more stuff to do with avatars?


Sadly no, it's beyond the scope of a 20% project really.


It's a shame. EVE for me is a game about exploration. And it's a shame that there's a part of EVE we can't explore.

There's nothing more frustrating for an explorer than a locked door.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#103 - 2014-09-02 11:45:20 UTC
I think the current hacking mechanic gets the balance right in keeping you in the site long enough that the site can sometimes drive conflict.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Malice Redeemer
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2014-09-02 16:13:59 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing.

Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy.

DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief.

A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter.


I know this is a little off topic, but as you mentioned loot balance... I wonder at this point if you guys even realize that the drone combat sites are a complete waste of time right now? You must have data on this from site completions, no one that knows better does them, they sit in space till they despawn.
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#105 - 2014-09-02 16:54:05 UTC
I too, really enjoy the current hacking mechanic, but some little improvements and rebalances to it would be nice. The rewards do certainly feel a little underwhelming for the effort involved though. I can understand that the more sties there are, the lower the rewards have to be to prevent oversaturation of rewards on the market, and that people want lots of sites to be able to explore that content, but perhaps a revision to the rarity dynamic is in order. More hacking sites with inferior rewards, and a smaller number with higher end rewards, like the faction bpcs. Keep the accessibility up to the minigame, but make the high value sites scarce but present.
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#106 - 2014-09-02 18:06:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarpedo
I don't agree with OP, scanning in EVE is worse than hacking. Pale bubbles in empty space with schematic orbits, stars, planets - it look like a game from the age of cassette computers in 80s.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#107 - 2014-09-03 08:08:19 UTC
Sinnish Saken wrote:
Disagree. I personally feel like I'm playing the game when I work through the mini-game.

There is a secondary reason for the mini-game IMO. It increases the time you spend at a site, meaning more actual skill = more isk, and also increases the amount of time you aren't looking at your d-scan..leading to content. Without the mini game I don't think anyone would get caught in a site unless someone is already in it waiting for you, wouldn't wish that camping on anyone. That's a reduction in content from both the hunter and the prey w/o the minigame.

And for the rewards I believe they're still worth it.



Kinda ok with the minigame if it didn't take up so much real estate onscreen, would be better if it were possible to get a virus strength over 40. Having the minigame at nullsec strength in hisec cosmos sites is dumb.
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#108 - 2014-09-03 08:51:39 UTC
Malice Redeemer wrote:
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Sargeant Hellian, no, I said we use AI for testing, I didn't say that was the only testing we do and it isn't. It's just a massive help for volume in a quantitative sense. We still do a bunch of manual qualitative testing.

Jeremiah Saken, no real plans for expanding it elsewhere but many ideas floated. Most of these sorts of things require more art, audio and basically more people working on it for a feature that needs it. This is a small project I'm working on reasonably slowly in the scheme of things but the codebase is good so additions are pretty easy.

DeMichael Crimson, thanks for the suggestions. I think there is a video of an early version of the Avatar prototype that was shown at a Russian player meet floating around if you want to have a little more evidence to help that belief.

A loot revamp primarily looking at the imbalance between Data and Relic sites is planned in the not too distant future by the other guys on Space Glitter.


I know this is a little off topic, but as you mentioned loot balance... I wonder at this point if you guys even realize that the drone combat sites are a complete waste of time right now? You must have data on this from site completions, no one that knows better does them, they sit in space till they despawn.


Contract me bookmarks, I'm making out well on drone sites with the nexus chips and sentient mods TYVM.
jullll
Les Petits Pedestres
WE FORM BL0B
#109 - 2014-09-03 09:28:02 UTC
REWARD IS NOT WORTH IT
I totaly lost interest of this activity.
I loved it, thx CCP...

S'No Flake
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2014-09-04 12:28:42 UTC
jullll wrote:
REWARD IS NOT WORTH IT
I totaly lost interest of this activity.
I loved it, thx CCP...



Because of all the pussies hating the loot spew now it's not worth it anymore.
While before you could make billions, now it's just worthless.

Really... what was so difficult to click those cans?
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#111 - 2014-09-05 06:15:22 UTC
S'No Flake wrote:
Because of all the pussies hating the loot spew now it's not worth it anymore.
While before you could make billions, now it's just worthless.

Yhm, because activity that can be run in cheap frigate with low skills should grant that kind of money. My last trip to null: casually played, 2 hours daily for 7 days, almost billion hauled back to empire. Wormhole travel, zero risk. There weren't any bubbles on my way so i'm thinking of switching my tengu for astero, will be even faster. Nerf was expected, exploration is way to easy now.

S'No Flake wrote:
Really... what was so difficult to click those cans?

There was a giant thread about it. Reading is hard?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Kyoko Onzo
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#112 - 2014-09-06 16:38:57 UTC
I initially disliked the mini game; however it's a much better system than when I originally (and lastly) did exploration. Then progression sites had area equivalent rats (so BS as well in places), there were no SOE (and for a time no T3) ships and no mobile depots, so it was a real pain in the behind. I'm glad they got rid of the rats (seems fair for a ship fit for scanning not to have to do a mini combat site). Can't just, basically hand over loot though, so the mini game is a more than fair trade off (and just waiting for a module to access the can means someone can just watch local without losing attention - aka no risk).

I kind of enjoy that it's an active thing now. As well it's provided for a few ganks which I'm enjoying as well!! Loot is fair too, but some better bpc's from relic sites would be appreciated. Anyways, much better than when I first ran explo sites. And, uh, scanning sites down now.... You have no idea how long that took, scanning is so easy now. Quit whining exploration is still easy isk.
Roche Pso
Deltole Research Labs
#113 - 2014-09-08 12:20:09 UTC
I like the mini game

I have killed https://zkillboard.com/kill/40268566/ and been killed https://zkillboard.com/kill/40752079
due to the mini game.

If it is going to be changed or replaced it needs to be with something that ties up your attention for the time needed to get ganked.
Valhallas
New Eden Robotics
#114 - 2014-09-08 16:23:37 UTC
Like someone else said -

Should have stolen the Paradroid mini game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWmNdT7gVKs

1min 30secs in
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#115 - 2014-09-08 20:30:14 UTC
Roche Pso wrote:
If it is going to be changed or replaced it needs to be with something that ties up your attention for the time needed to get ganked.

Actually it already does that and if you need ganking to be made even easier, then you need better tactics.

Anyway, not very many people do those sites right now and if it's changed to make ganking even easier, then nobody is gonna do those sites, thus making those sites a waste of invested Dev time.



DMC
Lucrii Dei
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2014-09-10 05:41:55 UTC
Take it from someone who's done almost nothing but relic and data sites since joining EVE. There is nothing wrong with the hacking mini-game. They can be completed in a matter of seconds.

Exhibit A: How to play the hacking minigame. \o)
Exhibit B: How to play the hacking minigame. \o/
Exhibit C: How to play the hacking minigame. (o/


There was nothing wrong with the old loot canisters either. I was mildly put off by the reduction in loot that came about because CCP wanted to change the looting mechanic for all the people that complained about it. Nobody that actually did the sites regularly before the change was bothered by the mechanic as they adapted to it and learned what to click and what not to click.

I don't like market PVP, so I don't do market PVP. That doesn't make it a pile of crap.

Fed up of next to no loot in your containers? Stop doing high-sec sites which are awful. Go take some risks and explore low-sec or null.

Failing that, go and find something you do enjoy doing and stop asking for silly changes to a system that works perfectly fine for those that enjoy it. Straight

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Travis Ulvaris
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2014-09-10 12:25:46 UTC
The minigame is a nice addition.... 'nough said Attention
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#118 - 2014-09-10 13:54:12 UTC
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Take it from someone who's done almost nothing but relic and data sites since joining EVE. There is nothing wrong with the hacking mini-game. They can be completed in a matter of seconds.

I did one can in two clicks once. First was defensive node, second was system core. It doesn't mean i do not want improvement in whole system.

Lucrii Dei wrote:
There was nothing wrong with the old loot canisters either. I was mildly put off by the reduction in loot that came about because CCP wanted to change the looting mechanic for all the people that complained about it. Nobody that actually did the sites regularly before the change was bothered by the mechanic as they adapted to it and learned what to click and what not to click.

Again there was a very long thread why scattering cans was bad idea. Just because you liked, doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer.
Lucrii Dei wrote:
Failing that, go and find something you do enjoy doing and stop asking for silly changes to a system that works perfectly fine for those that enjoy it.

Some of us like pong, some of us want something better. I don't like some of the changes to exploration that was made in odyssey but they may be changed someday.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Lucrii Dei
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#119 - 2014-09-10 20:27:53 UTC
I never liked nor hated scatter cans. I just accepted them as a feature and learned how to deal with them. There wouldn't be any suffering if others did the same. Blink

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EVEcandy™; An EVE Gallery!

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Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#120 - 2014-09-14 21:53:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Agondray
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
I kind of like it. Its a nice blend of character skill and actual skill. Just saying.


there is no skill to it, 1 hack the finish point is right next to you and another hack its clear on the other side, in a corner, in the basement with no lights in a locked filing cabinet on display, and a firewall every other node

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith