Wormholes

I had hope's but after your first comment it went to hell

I think Traiori definitely hit the nail on the head when it comes to explaining the crux of the issue with this proposed change.

The change proposed would put a significant risk on using large-mass ships to effectively close holes, yes, but it also will have several negative long term effects;

For groups that are able to field the mentioned support in the unpredictable environment of wormhole space, the change is a mere nuisance at best. Their "risk" remains almost the same; the probability of their assets being threatened with their support on field remains low, with the only challenge coming from other large groups. Cycling a hole would simply take a longer time, delaying the undertaking of potential content with the necessity of carrying out a pointlessly more time consuming activity in order to obtain the same result.

For groups not able to consistently field the necessary support, and with capitals in preciously short supply, the proposed change would render them at the absolute mercy of the larger groups. How would these smaller groups respond to a larger entity pouncing on their home system? The exact same method they respond with in the present when rolling a hole is not possible without an almost certain loss of the ships; they will simply return to their POS shields and sit it out, or log off entirely.

In conclusion, the proposed changes do not even have a solid theoretical base for their intended positive outcome; instead of creating content, the mechanic would only render cycling holes that much harder and outright prevent meaningful interaction between large and small entities in W-Space.

And everybody knows lack of fights = bad juju.

lets say a corp rage rolls for 7h a night (nice big corp with a wide actice tz)

lets say it takes 5min (not sure on normal time) to rage roll a hole. thats 84 holes a night.

now with this change lets say it takes an average extra 3minutes to slowboat back (170sec for a moros at 15km, 220 sec at 20km)

so now it takes 8min to rageroll. thats 52 holes a night. now call me a wizzard but 52 sure does seem an awefull lot like less than 84. I guess if you want to be anal about it they're still ragerolling 7h so not less ragerolling, just less holes, less content, more bad.

but hay how many holes you poke your scout in a night is none of my business.

ps. numbers are only representative. if someone could be so kind as to give normal average minutes per hole that'd be grand. alsp yey hole jokes.

so it will take you more time, hurting bigger corps causing less content.

Anize, if that's what you take away from what i said, sure, whatever man.

/mostly agree with the above !!!



"its too easy" ?! ... are u kidding me! "Easy" does not mean not Dangerous!



/agree on that



oh, noo! do u know the range of a bubble and the warping/align speed of a cap ?! ;-) "avoiding" bubbles cant be an argument :)


also, i wanted to say something to Sith´s and Anize on going conversation - but too many quotes in the posts and to do everyone a favor i dont quote again.

soo, too sum it up with my opinion:

> rolling holes at current state is dangerous enough

> yes it can be quite fast, compared to having slow boat to the hole, but as some posters said before with the right scouting and setup a fleet, in the present state of the game, the agressor still can decide whether to engage the rolling target or not. yes ok, right now u need timing and fast reaction. and patch might give the agressor more time. the patch might also just give agressor ( me included) less rolling cap to agress.

> i personally will really think about rolling holes on a sunday morning with a coffee in my hand once this patch come out and nobody in corp or alliance on yet. i lost a cap before trying to roll a hole on my own (which was scouted out already by the enemy - bad for me). making this process take even longer and dangerous wont help rolling at all. it will just keep connections open for a certain amount of time and for certain WH´s. well maybe i shouldnt roll a hole on my own - i know. but after the patch i def. wont roll on my own. so this will take away content for me and smaller groups. maybe i dont like the content in the chain and then i would think its too dangerous/takes too long to role.

> the real big entities will roll anyways with their blobb fleets trying to catch farmers. they wont care about 2 more mins once they get used to it.

> on some numbers, how much u can make in a WH in an hour with escalation, i disagree. those numbers are a really high optimum imo. most of the times sth. unexpected happens like a sig popping up, or worst case someone rolling into u, what disturbes the farming/Isk-hours anyways (in case i sound like a bear, i am not :) i rather roll for them :))

I don't think I need to repeat what people have already said, I too think this change is bad, but for me the real question is, why haven't we had an answer from Fozzie or anyone from CCP ?

Thing is for me I don't really see it as riskier for a lot of people and when it does increase the risk it generally puts the pressure on the smaller entities rather than the bigger ones. While admittedly I've not been very active lately when I have collapsed holes the vast majority of the time the increased risk from spawning further out would be between tiny and non-existent.



Don't really have my head around all the pros and cons of that one to give an answer. Being able to reuse quantum flux generators in w-space to toggle on and off depending if you were wanting more activity or not could possibly have some potential.

OK I understand your position but it seem that you advocate for less populated C5/C6 because all the small corps that are now making a living there will be moving out or sparsely play. It also seems that you think they'll "downgrade" and go live in C4s or smaller but with the increase connectivity for C4s and new frig holes I doubt you are correct but, hey, that's opinion vs opinion so....
On a side note I really don't give a rats arse about the player driven economy (I know others do and I agree is a matter of play-style) but if CCP continues to remove people from space by diminishing the incentives to be there I'm afraid they'll end up with spreadsheets in station instead of spreadsheets in space.

And finally Winthorp do you really think this change is the best way to increase the risk of rolling worm-holes? I bet people will find ways to roll with BS's effectively (if they can be bothered too) and we are going to be stuck with incapacitated offensive capitals (yes Nestors I know) and with a weakness against null alliances that will be better suited to control wh-null worm-holes and will always have the numbers advantage.

New Devblog incoming, Stream said changes to this are coming.