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Yea not those assumptions are wrong. Noone wan't Incursions in 0.0 because they prevent people from roaming/pvping and they disable local infrastructure no to mention it''s a poor income and only comes around every few months.

I Had finished a few Sites with a Maurauder Mix, that means Pala, Vargur, Kronos. Means only 3 Maurauder in the Site.
We fittet shortrange Weapons, Bastion, MJD and MWD.
For Boni we had full Info, Armor, Siege and Skirmish Boost.

Took around 15 minutes for a Site.

Even with MJD and MWD the main problem were the NPC's with high orbit.

So Antems with 140km orbit if you let them go so far.
Or Vylade with around 120km and an insane Tank even if it get shoot from 3 Maurauders.

Rest is standard Jel Rhomben are weeker than Eystur.
Raa Thalamus is weeker then Romi.
Lirsautton put out 1,4k volley damage's (in propaganda cluster)
In the Distress Beacon we had a spawn with 4 Mara's (no screenshot sadly)
And Arnon's can Jam Multiple targets, All Maurauder in Bastion Mode with drones out, only 2 of my drones were able to attack.

Incursions broke the economy of this game when they released and you guys have been trying to fix it in every other way other than at the cause of the problem.

The main problem with incursions is that there is no loot and no salvaging to do. What this means is that these sites are just chain run so that all time spent running incursions is generating large amounts of server created isk as opposed to isk gained from other players.

For example when running level 4 missions a player earns a small percentage of his/her isk from bounties and mission rewards and also in most cases spends a fair amount of time cleaning up the mission and selling loot / minerals from reprocessed loot to other players.

Running anoms is a similar thing where you run a few then clean up then run a few more. In the distant past I think I probably made more isk selling the ships that I built from melting anom loot than I did from the bounty payouts.

To compound this problem you guys recently cut in half the amount of minerals gotten from melting mission / anom loot so I am sure a fairly large percentage of players will stop looting / salvaging and just speed run sites adding further to the imbalance of server generated isk versus isk gained from other players.

In case you guys don't see the problem isk coming into the game from NPC payouts adds to the total isk pool in game and thus increases prices on everything in game. Now I understand the concept of isk sinks and how this last "industrial" expansion added large isk sinks through the increased costs associated with setting up jobs however I feel this is a less ideal way to go about things as adding "taxes" to the game seems to sap some of the fun.

I really think you guys need to contemplate more the amount of time that players spend earning isk from the server versus isk from other players as well as how much time is needed to be spent from various activities to earn a ship loss.

Since NPC payouts are static when mudflation occurs and prices increase that means players that earn the bulk of their income from NPC sources have to spend a higher percentage of their game time earning isk to pay for PvP losses.

As incursions are now on TQ T3's and logis are used quite a bit so I don't see how changing it to cruiser only makes it much more accessible to newer players. Now making them frig and dessie only sites to eliminate T3's and logis would make is so a 2 month old player could run these in a T2 frig.

I think really cost is more of a barrier for newer players than anything. Few newer players know how to earn the isk to pay for dead space and faction fit T3s, T2s and faction ships. Yes incursions can pay out enough to make it worth it to use them but if you can't buy one in the first place and no one will let you in fleet without one then you are kind of dead in the water.

If you want to make these more accessible to newer players I think you have to make cheaper ships more of a viable option so that they can find fleets and the only way I see that happening is to make incursion low / null sec only.

However while I have run high sec incursions I've not run low / null sec ones so I don't even know what people currently fly in them or how hard it is to get into fleet currently with a cheap ship so I could be way off base here.

If anyone reading this who flys low / null sec incursions regularly could give a description of what people typically fly in them and how easy it is to get a fleet if you are in a T2 fit T1 ship that would be appreciated.

first: were did you read the "per hour"?
second: you still didnt explain how something so limited in scope and number of involved players can break the economy.
there's a finite number of incursions that can be running at the same time, each of those can have a finite number of sites at the same time and even if you drag it on by not shooting moms its duration is finite.
each of those sites have a fixed number of maximum ships that can enter and a fixed payout - even when one of these sites get contended only the winning fleet gets the payout.
no way in heck this can even jiggle eve economy, lets not talk about "break" it.

go back up and reread your initial post that I commented on. You said "a couple hundred guys earning 100mil/h".

As far as you limited scope comment it's not as limited as you make it seem when sites are completed new ones spawn and when an incursion completes a new incursion spawns.

Just because it may be limited in nature does not mean it has no effect on the game economy.

As far as my original comment you are again missing the point that all isk in not equal and when you introduce a new source of server generated isk without introducing an isk sink you offset that balance and mudflation occurs.

Also I am of the oppinion that most of the things that CCP has done since the original balance offset has served to only make things worse not better.

If you dont' understand the difference between server generated isk and isk gotten from other players or the concept of mudflation I do not have the room here nor do I care to take the time to explain it to you especially when google will help you find resources that will do a much better job than I could.

What you say here is just not true. They just made drone changes to have a more linear increase with benefit from skill and more base damage without increasing all level 5 damage so that is one example of a change which helps low SP players without helping high SP players.

I fully agree with you that players will min-max that was in part my point. I do not like changes like locking out T3 which restrict choice. I'd much rather see changes that encourage one behavior over another. An example would be to increase the risk of loosing a ship so that it would not make financial sense to fly "blinged out" ships into them. This could be accomplished by making incursions only spawn in low / null sec. Also could figure out a way to add some type of variation into the mix that would lead to an unpredictableness which resulted in more "wipes"

However none of that is really important here as I was commenting to Nevyn on how what he suggested doesn't really change the options currently open to newbies now and how the real barrier for entry was not skills but availability to fleet and isk.

I'm not sure if it's me being poor at expressing my point or if you are just reading too fast. My original point what that you were comparing a rate to a bulk number. No you did not say hundreds of Billions of isk per hour but you did say hundreds of Millions of isk per hour and I was pointing out that comparing those two is meaningless.

Once again you are comparing apples to oranges with your trit reference.

So now we move on to due to you not understand the base concept that I have put forth you want to divert the conversation to my lack of having any statistical data of which CCP holds tight to it's chest like the trade secret that it is. No I do not have any statistical data on this nor do I have any computer models to predict specific numerical outcomes and if I did you would have seen the title "CCP" before my name. However just because I don't work for CCP and as such do not have access to the specific market data that would be needed does not mean that I do not understand the basic concepts of how in game economies work nor does it invalidate my opinion on the matter.

I'm not really sure what you think I'm jealous of. I've got the skill points and isk to do what ever I want in game. If I want to run incursion then I run them there's nothing for me to be jealous of. You however seem to want to try to invalidate my comments by offering nothing other than diversion tactics and refusing to address my base point and offering numbers so vague and incomparable as to be meaningless. You seem to be jealously protecting something you know to be out of balance.

Now if you understand that there is a difference between server isk and player isk and the ratio of server isk to isk sinks and how once isk is introduced to the game above and beyond that which is taken out that newly generated isk has affects far beyond that initial payout and is cumulative over time then I am more than happy to be corrected and educated on the matter. But your ad hominem attacks only serve to demonstrate the complete lack of any factual basis for your viewpoint and maybe even a basic lack of understanding of the concepts that I put forth here.

absolutely not, I meant everything i write.
maybe I'm not able to explain myself as well as I would like as I'm not native english and my hold of English its not good enough but I dont like trolls nor trolling.

its not a question of money, if you place anything in null only people blue with the two coalitions will be able to run them.
and if you are blue you can run them in wathever ship you want, you just need to look at intel and warp to pos when needed.
if you place them in low only a few people that can hold that system completely locked for the period or friendly with every local denizens will be able to run them, exactly as it happens with level 5 missions.
for everybody else would be suicide.
so basically you arent lowering the isk/sp factor, you are just removing them from most player's reach.

Dear CCP!

As a relatively new player (3mill SP) I would like to offer the following insights:

For me to participate in incursion is impossible because

• Not enough SP for BS or T2 logi
• Not enough money to buy BS with Shiney / Logi (This one is the lesser problem)

I think the Scout site rewamp should be aimed toward those small groups and inexperienced players whom I also represent.

Problems:
Even if this possibility will offer nice rewards to rookies, more than 30mill/hour, leaving the acceleration gate to allow BS to pass through means this:

• When incursion cumminty fleets are full, they will form secondary fleets to run scouts while they wait -> no scouts left for little guy
• If inexperienced players decide to run them in LowSec, how hard is it going to be to gank a sub-battleship 5man gang with even a few BSes/marauders?

I believe you should pick a ship size you intend the scouts to be ran by, a character age (SP) below which it is impossible to join VG/HQ fleets and tweak these sites to allow best new CONTENT for these pilots cause this is basically new content and I am excited about it.

In addition: this could mean increased lowsec content too as people will venture into LS to do this if risk/reward ratio is right.