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[Hyperion] Heavy Assault Cruiser tweaks

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1441 - 2014-08-13 08:52:04 UTC
Astral Jesus wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The constant tweaking of ships etc to make them all pretty much equal should be carried to its logical conclusion by CCP.

One ship type of each class, no ship allowed to have even a slight inbuilt advantage over another, just different skins so folk can feel that their ship is 'different' to the others.

Further to this, each ship class should only be allowed to fight ships of the same class in equal number fights.

Finally, Eve Online should be renamed as - Vanilla Online.


Seriously. This seems to be where things are headed. It's sad.


No it not. They are just getting rid of the FOTM blanace passes.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#1442 - 2014-08-13 08:59:43 UTC
Gotta love the whining about nothing being inherently OP anymore.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1443 - 2014-08-13 09:16:03 UTC
VonGurgoth wrote:
CCP why don't you spend more time to create balance by releasing new ships more than nerfing existing one?


Because instead of having 1 OP ship and 7 lesser ships, you'd then have 1 OP, 1 okay and 7 "why do you even undock?" ships.

Power creep is not a good idea.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1444 - 2014-08-13 09:41:12 UTC
Adrie Atticus wrote:
VonGurgoth wrote:
CCP why don't you spend more time to create balance by releasing new ships more than nerfing existing one?


Because instead of having 1 OP ship and 7 lesser ships, you'd then have 1 OP, 1 okay and 7 "why do you even undock?" ships.

Power creep is not a good idea.



No.. power creep is good because keep peopel interested and make unsubscribed come back. But must be done VERY slowly and very carefully. It is a formula that magic the gathering perfected trough the years, slow power crreep.. than every 4-5 years a drop in power level to start over. But they execute the drop when somethign imensely interestign can distract the players (liek new format or card type)

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1445 - 2014-08-13 09:43:07 UTC
Fitz Muller wrote:
I don't like the idea of an 8/4/7 Tempest because the Typhoon has to be armor tanked and the Maelstrom has to be shield tanked. You would force the Tempest into armor which takes away the versatility that the Minmatar are known for. At least for battleship class ships



Versatility in eve means being so bad on both scenarios that no one with marbles undock in a tempest except to duel with a cruiser ....

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1446 - 2014-08-13 09:45:01 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
VonGurgoth wrote:
CCP why don't you spend more time to create balance by releasing new ships more than nerfing existing one?


Because instead of having 1 OP ship and 7 lesser ships, you'd then have 1 OP, 1 okay and 7 "why do you even undock?" ships.

Power creep is not a good idea.



No.. power creep is good because keep peopel interested and make unsubscribed come back.


Get out.

Power creep is a terrible thing.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1447 - 2014-08-13 09:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Montey Haul wrote:
Well, lets just say as a mission runner the changes to the Gurista ships were just a really worthless thing to do! I sold all the Lvl 4 mission rattlers and the Gila is almost completely worthless after having its drone utility removed


I'm sorry but you must be terrible.

1500+ DPS out my rattlesnake I use in missions. I have a PvP fit knocking on for nearly 1200 DPS with nearly a quarter MILLION EHP.

900+ DPS out of a gila.


Yeah, they're simple awful cannot see a use for them at all........


Also, WTF does that have to do with this thread?
Dark Magni
The Church of Awesome
#1448 - 2014-08-13 10:41:23 UTC
Why balance the Ishtar slowly and not just straight away? I read through the first 30 pages of this thread and all the areas that need to be considered have been intelligently highlighted, and actually repeated quite a few times.


Oh and please can you give new subscribers a large learning speed advantage for example 5x learning speed for first 6 weeks? I want less empty systems!


BUFF NOOBS FILL SERVER VERY GOOD


Cheers
Montey Haul
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1449 - 2014-08-13 10:46:51 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Montey Haul wrote:
Well, lets just say as a mission runner the changes to the Gurista ships were just a really worthless thing to do! I sold all the Lvl 4 mission rattlers and the Gila is almost completely worthless after having its drone utility removed


I'm sorry but you must be terrible.

1500+ DPS out my rattlesnake I use in missions. I have a PvP fit knocking on for nearly 1200 DPS with nearly a quarter MILLION EHP.

900+ DPS out of a gila.


Yeah, they're simple awful cannot see a use for them at all........


Also, WTF does that have to do with this thread?

lol... Troll much... I quoted the response to anothers post. Read much? Anyhow... I think you are just so awesome :) Is that 1500 with or without Geckos? Oh and by the way... I used the rattler not as an afk boat, but as a utility to rep noobs while they learned the missions. 2nd... The Rattler sucks completely now. A regular Domi is way better than a dual faction ship. Trollollol back at ya!
Josef Djugashvilis
#1450 - 2014-08-13 10:47:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Astral Jesus wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
The constant tweaking of ships etc to make them all pretty much equal should be carried to its logical conclusion by CCP.

One ship type of each class, no ship allowed to have even a slight inbuilt advantage over another, just different skins so folk can feel that their ship is 'different' to the others.

Further to this, each ship class should only be allowed to fight ships of the same class in equal number fights.

Finally, Eve Online should be renamed as - Vanilla Online.


Seriously. This seems to be where things are headed. It's sad.


No it not. They are just getting rid of the FOTM blanace passes.


When you get rid of 'flavour of the month' enough times, you end up with, Vanilla Online Smile

This is not a signature.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#1451 - 2014-08-13 11:15:36 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:

When you get rid of 'flavour of the month' enough times, you end up with, Vanilla Online Smile


Are you even capable of making an argument that isn't built on hyperbole? Seriously.

Oh, and by the way. You want to know what Vanilla Online really is? Where one freaking ship is so much better than every other one in it's class, that there isn't any point in using anything else.

Game balance = variety of choices. It's the exact opposite of what fools like you think.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Ponder Stuff
Jump 2 Beacon
#1452 - 2014-08-13 11:22:37 UTC
Great, so they take away 10 of my fighter bombers (dropping 20 looked so much more awesome than 10) because they wanted to reduce load on the server and then they make the most overpowered ship in the game a drone boat... everyone drops drones and you still have the same problem...... ^5
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1453 - 2014-08-13 11:27:08 UTC
Montey Haul wrote:
The Rattler sucks completely now.


Yea your terrible. Rattle is a beast.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#1454 - 2014-08-13 11:29:10 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:


When you get rid of 'flavour of the month' enough times, you end up with, Vanilla Online Smile


So the cynable is the same as an ashimmu?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1455 - 2014-08-13 11:43:00 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
VonGurgoth wrote:
CCP why don't you spend more time to create balance by releasing new ships more than nerfing existing one?


Because instead of having 1 OP ship and 7 lesser ships, you'd then have 1 OP, 1 okay and 7 "why do you even undock?" ships.

Power creep is not a good idea.



No.. power creep is good because keep peopel interested and make unsubscribed come back.


Get out.

Power creep is a terrible thing.



No its not.. and EVERYONE that studied game design theory knows that. On the long run it is the most easily available tool to keep peopel interested in the game. That has been expressed clearly on all tradign card games, the ones that decided to avoid power creep ALL died, not a single exception. The ones that learned how to manage it survived and gained more players.

psychology is more important in game design than math.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1456 - 2014-08-13 11:44:34 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:

No its not.. and EVERYONE that studied game design theory knows that. On the long run it is the most easily available tool to keep peopel interested in the game. That has been expressed clearly on all tradign card games, the ones that decided to avoid power creep ALL died, not a single exception. The ones that learned how to manage it survived and gained more players.

psychology is more important in game design than math.


Games of strategy tend to be fine without power creep. Eve is basically a game of strategy.

See also: Chess.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1457 - 2014-08-13 11:53:42 UTC
power creep is done because people cry loads about nerfs, even though buffing 1 thing is basically the same as nerfing everything other than that thing. if you disagree, you're terrible.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1458 - 2014-08-13 11:53:58 UTC
Montey Haul wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Montey Haul wrote:
Well, lets just say as a mission runner the changes to the Gurista ships were just a really worthless thing to do! I sold all the Lvl 4 mission rattlers and the Gila is almost completely worthless after having its drone utility removed


I'm sorry but you must be terrible.

1500+ DPS out my rattlesnake I use in missions. I have a PvP fit knocking on for nearly 1200 DPS with nearly a quarter MILLION EHP.

900+ DPS out of a gila.


Yeah, they're simple awful cannot see a use for them at all........


Also, WTF does that have to do with this thread?

lol... Troll much... I quoted the response to anothers post. Read much? Anyhow... I think you are just so awesome :) Is that 1500 with or without Geckos? Oh and by the way... I used the rattler not as an afk boat, but as a utility to rep noobs while they learned the missions. 2nd... The Rattler sucks completely now. A regular Domi is way better than a dual faction ship. Trollollol back at ya!


Geckos brings you to 1700, bright eyes.

1500 is applicable DPS.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1459 - 2014-08-13 11:54:47 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Adrie Atticus wrote:
VonGurgoth wrote:
CCP why don't you spend more time to create balance by releasing new ships more than nerfing existing one?


Because instead of having 1 OP ship and 7 lesser ships, you'd then have 1 OP, 1 okay and 7 "why do you even undock?" ships.

Power creep is not a good idea.



No.. power creep is good because keep peopel interested and make unsubscribed come back.


Get out.

Power creep is a terrible thing.



No its not.. and EVERYONE that studied game design theory knows that. On the long run it is the most easily available tool to keep peopel interested in the game. That has been expressed clearly on all tradign card games, the ones that decided to avoid power creep ALL died, not a single exception. The ones that learned how to manage it survived and gained more players.

psychology is more important in game design than math.


Game theory as taught by who, acti-blizzard? Get out, you know nothing.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1460 - 2014-08-13 11:56:03 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:

Geckos brings you to 1700, bright eyes.

1500 is applicable DPS.



Augmented Ogres are higher again.