These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Hyperion Feedback Thread] Mass-Based Spawn Distance After WH Jumps

First post First post First post
Author
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#841 - 2014-08-12 02:23:05 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback so far. Special thanks to those who are providing lots of text about the reasoning behind your feelings, as those are the most useful posts.

We're continuing to pour over all the feedback and considering multiple options for adjustments to the plan based on what we're hearing. We probably won't have something new to announce for a couple days but we want you to know that we are listening and working hard behind the scenes in the meantime.


Hyperion Dev Blog wrote:
Wormhole jump changes
The jump-in point will change based on ship mass, and signatures for wormhole exits will not appear until a ship jumps through.



This is starting to feel like the hacking loot-scatter mechanic all over again. Is CCP going full steam ahead with this, despite 90% of w-space trying to tell them why it is a bad idea?

At this point this thread consists of basically 2 things: Schadenfreude, and wormholers against this change.
Aedh Phelan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#842 - 2014-08-12 02:26:08 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote: "Normally I wouldn’t feel that we have to go over our views this explicitly, but I’ve been seeing a distressing number of players misunderstand our position and I wanted to hopefully end the confusion once and for all." http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/?_ga=1.1548721.1488620783.1407808787

The dev blog notice on the launcher dated 8/11 indicates no changes so far to the spawn distance changes.

So 41 pages of feedback mostly outlining the many various ways this change is terrible. And yet it seems we actually do "explicitly" understand your (CCP Fozzie) position. Your position seems to "explicitly" be that you want to do it and 41 pages of mostly "explicitly" thought out reasons of objection are over-reactions by silly little noobs and must have gone unread or dismissed as worthless drivel.

In this case Fozzie, IMHO, your words are like the friendly insincere smile from someone quietly stealing our candy. You assume it is for our own good because clearly you think we don't have a clue.
Hans Bonderstadt
#843 - 2014-08-12 02:38:27 UTC
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:


my corp unsubdued. all 15 of my friends who were gonna join the new corp we made to go into a wh again, unsubed, all 10 aussies who were part of the night crew unsubdued and wont come back.
i have personally have 2 weeks left on my membership. i CANT WAIT for it to end. and finally be free of this crappy 2nd job that needs to be paid for.

we will not be coming back, and this is my last post on the eve community forums. im gonna go play a fun 2.5d facebook game with 5x the active player base that eve ever had. (kinda sad aint it) ccp has got to be the worse and most ******** company to ever have blundered its way into making a game. but WE are even bigger idiots for paying them as long as we did.


rip in pepperoni we will miss u 4ever
Goodnight sweet prince
May sweet dreams com 2 u

the trap is our venue pussy is on the menu

calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#844 - 2014-08-12 05:46:59 UTC
As part of one of the smaller groups in wormholespace who now are supposed to die in a fire and depression (according to everyone in this thread) I am a bit amazed about the arguments thrown out here.

I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics. And the concept that you can isolate your system and farm in peace solo cap escalations in c5 and c6 space is to my mind at the border to gamebreaking.

I was at first divided on this subject. But right now I lean to heavily support this change. Not because its a good change. But because the status quo is worse.

And I really do hope that this change how everyone live in wormholespace. Because its needed.

You big corps and alliances. Ask yourself this. How many people in your corp/alliance are playing jabber online? Who only turn up for the pinged fights? Is that really good gameplay in your eyes?

For the smaller groups who enjoy pvp. C4 space are seeing a new purpose. Sure c5 has better isk, but you dont need to live there to harvest it. Open your eyes to the options these changes bring. The new dual statics literally come in all flavours. Are risk free farming really the winning point of why you live in wormholespace? Why you play this game?

So yes. I now support this change
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#845 - 2014-08-12 06:04:23 UTC
calaretu wrote:
I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics.

if the alternative is your little corp not getting to do anything until the larger corp goes away? yes, I say it is good game mechanics as it allows small corps to continue looking for content when they cant interact with their current chain options.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#846 - 2014-08-12 07:17:37 UTC
calaretu wrote:
As part of one of the smaller groups in wormholespace who now are supposed to die in a fire and depression (according to everyone in this thread) I am a bit amazed about the arguments thrown out here.

I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics. And the concept that you can isolate your system and farm in peace solo cap escalations in c5 and c6 space is to my mind at the border to gamebreaking.

I was at first divided on this subject. But right now I lean to heavily support this change. Not because its a good change. But because the status quo is worse.

And I really do hope that this change how everyone live in wormholespace. Because its needed.

You big corps and alliances. Ask yourself this. How many people in your corp/alliance are playing jabber online? Who only turn up for the pinged fights? Is that really good gameplay in your eyes?

For the smaller groups who enjoy pvp. C4 space are seeing a new purpose. Sure c5 has better isk, but you dont need to live there to harvest it. Open your eyes to the options these changes bring. The new dual statics literally come in all flavours. Are risk free farming really the winning point of why you live in wormholespace? Why you play this game?

So yes. I now support this change


Finally another wormholer with some balls. Can't believe the people unsubbing after pleading for changes and them getting butt hurt when they may actually change current dynamics. This is still by far the best online MMO. Well to Fozzie to sticking to his guns. So far...

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public

calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#847 - 2014-08-12 07:19:22 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics.

if the alternative is your little corp not getting to do anything until the larger corp goes away? yes, I say it is good game mechanics as it allows small corps to continue looking for content when they cant interact with their current chain options.


But I could do it risk free. Their fleets wasnt on 0 on wormhole. Thats whats wrong imo. The risk free part. And its only in 5/6-5/6 you have the option of instaclosing. Shoukd small groups be able to live in these systems? I suggest perhaps not. A lot of other systems to live in. And we are making this move ourself as our active numbers had a drop. So yes I dont support the argument that small groups should be able to live in 5/6-5/6
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#848 - 2014-08-12 08:23:53 UTC
Kel hound wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback so far. Special thanks to those who are providing lots of text about the reasoning behind your feelings, as those are the most useful posts.

We're continuing to pour over all the feedback and considering multiple options for adjustments to the plan based on what we're hearing. We probably won't have something new to announce for a couple days but we want you to know that we are listening and working hard behind the scenes in the meantime.


Hyperion Dev Blog wrote:
Wormhole jump changes
The jump-in point will change based on ship mass, and signatures for wormhole exits will not appear until a ship jumps through.



This is starting to feel like the hacking loot-scatter mechanic all over again. Is CCP going full steam ahead with this, despite 90% of w-space trying to tell them why it is a bad idea?

At this point this thread consists of basically 2 things: Schadenfreude, and wormholers against this change.


It would seem the remaining 10 % of supposed WH dwellers, alongside the nullsec bears who know all about WHs, are enough for him to push the change.

Id say that no matter how many pages we write, theyll go ahead because they think its good. Few hundreds subs mean nothing to them so why not screw up the game for us.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#849 - 2014-08-12 08:26:16 UTC
calaretu wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics.

if the alternative is your little corp not getting to do anything until the larger corp goes away? yes, I say it is good game mechanics as it allows small corps to continue looking for content when they cant interact with their current chain options.


But I could do it risk free. Their fleets wasnt on 0 on wormhole. Thats whats wrong imo. The risk free part. And its only in 5/6-5/6 you have the option of instaclosing. Shoukd small groups be able to live in these systems? I suggest perhaps not. A lot of other systems to live in. And we are making this move ourself as our active numbers had a drop. So yes I dont support the argument that small groups should be able to live in 5/6-5/6



ive closed a WH with enemy T3 fleet trying to catch me. Thats not the point. With the new mechanics, there is no way to close when there is enemy unless you have big support fleet ready to pull you out if needed. Small groups will hav to log off and wait.

If you tell me how does that create content please?...
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#850 - 2014-08-12 08:26:18 UTC
calaretu wrote:
As part of one of the smaller groups in wormholespace who now are supposed to die in a fire and depression (according to everyone in this thread) I am a bit amazed about the arguments thrown out here.

I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics. And the concept that you can isolate your system and farm in peace solo cap escalations in c5 and c6 space is to my mind at the border to gamebreaking.

I was at first divided on this subject. But right now I lean to heavily support this change. Not because its a good change. But because the status quo is worse.

And I really do hope that this change how everyone live in wormholespace. Because its needed.

You big corps and alliances. Ask yourself this. How many people in your corp/alliance are playing jabber online? Who only turn up for the pinged fights? Is that really good gameplay in your eyes?

For the smaller groups who enjoy pvp. C4 space are seeing a new purpose. Sure c5 has better isk, but you dont need to live there to harvest it. Open your eyes to the options these changes bring. The new dual statics literally come in all flavours. Are risk free farming really the winning point of why you live in wormholespace? Why you play this game?

So yes. I now support this change

Your ignorance of actual c5-6 mechanics and your jabber comment is telling and reduces your post to irrelevace. thx for playing.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Lenroc Elisav
Lenny'S TAX evasion 101
#851 - 2014-08-12 08:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lenroc Elisav
calaretu wrote:
Stuff


You got hotheaded and are not thinking straight. If you managed to solo close a WH with two hostile fleets around, props to you, but those fleets (better said their FCs) sucked hard or they didn't give a rats ass about you and instead were chasing each other. You know that there are tactics developed to catch rolling caps, right? So you prefer to not have the option to boldly close a hole but instead to POS up and spin, sounds legit! Even if I am to concede that it would be better to increase the risk involved in rolling a C5/C6 hole I still think this proposed way of mass-based spawn (which may put offensive caps 40km apart) isn't the way to do it. A solution that causes a bigger problem that the one that it solves is not a good solution.

I agree with you that isolating system in order to farm should not be possible but that could be easily solved by having the static force spawn (no matter if it was interacted with by players - scanned, warped too etc) on a timer (5 minutes so active players can scan it and have the upper hand if they are on an offensive prowl) and the K162 on the other side 15 (let's say) minutes later (or/and at first jump as proposed). Or at least make the K162 visible and interact able with.
I think we should charge CCP money for all these great solutions we are throwing at them Cool.

EDIT - And absent rage rolling farming will be even safer. Granted one won't be able to schedule it but still safer when it will occur.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#852 - 2014-08-12 08:59:22 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
calaretu wrote:
So yes. I now support this change

Your ignorance of actual c5-6 mechanics and your jabber comment is telling and reduces your post to irrelevace. thx for playing.
And you are supposed to be a massively more relevant because...?
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#853 - 2014-08-12 09:35:43 UTC
Lenroc Elisav wrote:
calaretu wrote:
Stuff


You got hotheaded and are not thinking straight. If you managed to solo close a WH with two hostile fleets around, props to you, but those fleets (better said their FCs) sucked hard or they didn't give a rats ass about you and instead were chasing each other. You know that there are tactics developed to catch rolling caps, right? So you prefer to not have the option to boldly close a hole but instead to POS up and spin, sounds legit! Even if I am to concede that it would be better to increase the risk involved in rolling a C5/C6 hole I still think this proposed way of mass-based spawn (which may put offensive caps 40km apart) isn't the way to do it. A solution that causes a bigger problem that the one that it solves is not a good solution.

I agree with you that isolating system in order to farm should not be possible but that could be easily solved by having the static force spawn (no matter if it was interacted with by players - scanned, warped too etc) on a timer (5 minutes so active players can scan it and have the upper hand if they are on an offensive prowl) and the K162 on the other side 15 (let's say) minutes later (or/and at first jump as proposed). Or at least make the K162 visible and interact able with.
I think we should charge CCP money for all these great solutions we are throwing at them Cool.

EDIT - And absent rage rolling farming will be even safer. Granted one won't be able to schedule it but still safer when it will occur.


and yet the outcome will be ultimately decided regardless of all the feedback and solutions given.
Maduin Shi
MAGA Inc
#854 - 2014-08-12 10:21:09 UTC
Lenroc Elisav wrote:
calaretu wrote:
Stuff


You got hotheaded and are not thinking straight. If you managed to solo close a WH with two hostile fleets around, props to you, but those fleets (better said their FCs) sucked hard or they didn't give a rats ass about you and instead were chasing each other.


Or the "fleets" consisted of empty ships sitting in a POS that he saw on dscan. Roll
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#855 - 2014-08-12 10:39:26 UTC
calaretu wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics.

if the alternative is your little corp not getting to do anything until the larger corp goes away? yes, I say it is good game mechanics as it allows small corps to continue looking for content when they cant interact with their current chain options.

But I could do it risk free. Their fleets wasnt on 0 on wormhole. Thats whats wrong imo. The risk free part. And its only in 5/6-5/6 you have the option of instaclosing. Shoukd small groups be able to live in these systems? I suggest perhaps not. A lot of other systems to live in. And we are making this move ourself as our active numbers had a drop. So yes I dont support the argument that small groups should be able to live in 5/6-5/6

it is NOT risk free.
ive killed MANY people closing WHs before and expect to do it again in the future.
It isnt hard and there is VERY real risk involved in combat rolling and anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or incompetent.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout

Winthorp
#856 - 2014-08-12 10:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Winthorp
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics.

if the alternative is your little corp not getting to do anything until the larger corp goes away? yes, I say it is good game mechanics as it allows small corps to continue looking for content when they cant interact with their current chain options.

But I could do it risk free. Their fleets wasnt on 0 on wormhole. Thats whats wrong imo. The risk free part. And its only in 5/6-5/6 you have the option of instaclosing. Shoukd small groups be able to live in these systems? I suggest perhaps not. A lot of other systems to live in. And we are making this move ourself as our active numbers had a drop. So yes I dont support the argument that small groups should be able to live in 5/6-5/6

it is NOT risk free.
ive killed MANY people closing WHs before and expect to do it again in the future.
It isnt hard and there is VERY real risk involved in combat rolling and anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or incompetent.


The point is you have killed stupid people that can't log a simple scout on, once they have a scout they are 100% safe and if they know they are not they don't roll it.

But you can always count on stupid Jack.

It actually disappoints me CCP has listened to all the whining here and is changing this to be more carebear friendly.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#857 - 2014-08-12 11:00:09 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
calaretu wrote:
I have solo closed wormholes in the face of two! hostile fleets. I can not fathom how anyone can call that good game mechanics.

if the alternative is your little corp not getting to do anything until the larger corp goes away? yes, I say it is good game mechanics as it allows small corps to continue looking for content when they cant interact with their current chain options.

But I could do it risk free. Their fleets wasnt on 0 on wormhole. Thats whats wrong imo. The risk free part. And its only in 5/6-5/6 you have the option of instaclosing. Shoukd small groups be able to live in these systems? I suggest perhaps not. A lot of other systems to live in. And we are making this move ourself as our active numbers had a drop. So yes I dont support the argument that small groups should be able to live in 5/6-5/6

it is NOT risk free.
ive killed MANY people closing WHs before and expect to do it again in the future.
It isnt hard and there is VERY real risk involved in combat rolling and anyone claiming otherwise is either lying or incompetent.


The point is you have killed stupid people that can't log a simple scout on, once they have a scout they are 100% safe and if they know they are not they don't roll it.

But you can always count on stupid Jack.

It actually disappoints me CCP has listened to all the whining here and is changing this to be more carebear friendly.


unlike now you could simply roll even when it wasnt safe. AFter change, nope. STuck, log off.
Winthorp
#858 - 2014-08-12 11:05:30 UTC
Pavel Sohaj wrote:


unlike now you could simply roll even when it wasn't safe. AFter change, nope. STuck, log off.


So log off and cry me a river. You rolling your chain safely and then continuing to carebear away benefits no one.

You logging off cause it wasn't perfectly safe for you to achieve a Wh with no entry points actually benefits the rest of the players that actually only PVE to PVP by increasing the value of MNR's when all you whining carebears can't farm more then you should be.
Pavel Sohaj
BAND of MAGNUS
#859 - 2014-08-12 11:08:53 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Pavel Sohaj wrote:


unlike now you could simply roll even when it wasn't safe. AFter change, nope. STuck, log off.


So log off and cry me a river. You rolling your chain safely and then continuing to carebear away benefits no one.

You logging off cause it wasn't perfectly safe for you to achieve a Wh with no entry points actually benefits the rest of the players that actually only PVE to PVP by increasing the value of MNR's when all you whining carebears can't farm more then you should be.


lol, so much hate. Well, expected.
Your hateful comments that obviously have no respect for anybody are really great. You are such great guy to have around. I wonder how, with such attitude and opinions, you expect to find ppl in WH. Sure, occasional explorers are there and surely you grow big when you shoot a heron on sun, prolly claiming to be pvp god of the week, no doubt.

But then try for once, with a reason, to reply to a simple question : How does affecting peoples ability to create content help the game? Since small groups will have it much tougher now and they are part of the game too, despite your inability and unwillingess to see it.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#860 - 2014-08-12 11:34:34 UTC
Perfectly safe huh? Strange... all those farming fleets that collapsed all their wormholes including their static and was watching scanner window constantly and still got killed must be a figment of our imagination and a glitch on zkillboard.

what a joke. you sir are a joke.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3