Wormholes

The biggest issue with this change I see is you are adding work/time to rolling a wormhole, which is something many of us do 10s, maybe even 100 times a day.

I completely understand that your intention is to make rolling the WH "riskier" and " require more support" But in reality 99% of the times we are rolling our wormholes is because its dead/empty/undesirable. Were getting rid of it because it doesn't have content, so we can go find content. All this change does is make it take longer and require more effort to go FIND content.

I hate my targets rolling the WH on them as much as the next guy, but this is honestly going to hamper hunters more than them. Hunters are the ones constantly churning through whs looking for targets. With the K162 appearance change theyll be rolling even fewer WHs than ever.

I dont think that the basics of the idea are bad, as it will bring more diversity into fleet setups and those 1600mm HAC/T3/Guardians will be still viable but the same goes then for fast propelling shield fleets. I like that part, really.

But how you do that is a real No-Go CCP. You are basically destroying possibilities to create content and make alot of setups (like Triage Carrier) useless on a tactical scale. This might be not intended, but as many other people told you - you are doing it.

Here are 2 ideas i read somewhere which might should be considered valid options:

1.) Make people spawn the closer the more mass they have. Kitey shield fleets will be able to get away from the enemy, Caps are in refit + logistic range - everything perfect.

2.) Make ships spawn in a cone towards the sun. That way we could predict at least a bit where we spawn and decide if it's worth the risk, so we are in combat range and not scattered around a big sphere and easily shot down.

And Edit says:
Maybe increase the refit range of carriers. This would help here alot.

As I said in the other thread (or it might have been on reddit), this "small" chance is easily where I lose the most T3s. It makes nullified cloaky T3s essentially invulnerable save for unlucky server ticks in wormspace.

If your going to do this with wormholes, why not jumpbridges and cynos as well?

The main cause of "Danger" In wormholes is that they are well connected and those connections are unpredictable, while on the same time the reason they fit small groups so well is that they are extremely flexible, which is a very important niche in the time of Powerblocks and super escalations.

With the new way k162 appear people are a lot less safer when farming, as every dedicated fleet can then roll, form and jump into the hole in anticipation of some NPC farming to hop onto.

However noone will be interested in rolling anymore, as it keeps a high risk and makes you very vulnerable, especially when having a wh->low or wh->null connection.

With the propsed changes most wh groups will end up with waiting for their static to roll itself and either have luck and do something out of it, or log off for the next day, which should absolutely not be ccps intention.

Also when there is a big group->small group connection the small group has no chance of doing anything until that changes as the big group that has activity in all timezones will camp the wh for anyone trying to close it early, at worst getting bored and shooting towers to tickle some pvp they wont get. At the end of this process another group will have left W-Space, and W-Space will more or less fastly face the same issues of power blocks and projection like null faces as of know, which are a major concern to most of the playerbase.

If the target is to create a better pvp meta around kiting/long range, then having it reverse way, so basically smaller ships can spawn further away, while bigger will be closer to the wormhole they just went through. This will give leightwieght kiters a chance to get away, while keeping the overall wh pvp healthy.

This is written from a small WH groups perspective, not from the 500 character corps point of view, so i hope i defended the small groups point of view here.

I'd like to see this as well ^_^

From the article, the stated design drivers are:



Meaning that CCP wants to stop the safety of collapsing yourself in. This mechanic does allow groups (especially small ones)to operate significantly more safely, and the proposed change does appear make it more dangerous for them. This sort of player is going to want to avoid combat regardless though, so they will probably choose to "make do with bubbles and scouts", which is only avoided as it is more annoying... however it is still fairly effective at the stated aim of "doing sites with minimal risk". In the very early days of wormholes this was a normal mode of operation, especially while pilots were mostly sub-capital and orcas were rare/expensive.

However I believe this underestimates the effect the "quick roll" mechanic has on another play style. Those who actively *seek* combat roll wormholes. This is an emergent mechanic which disrupts the above "mitigation" as well as any other defensive wormhole collapsing mechanic. Nothing about your own ability to collapse a wormhole can prepare you for an incoming connection with an interdictor (short of being bait with a fleet larger than any that may jump in).

I believe the proposed change to jump distance fails to meet the stated design goal whilst inadvertently making it SAFER for those who wish to avoid combat as it is less likely they will have a hostile gang appear from a previously uncharted wormhole connection.

The random "frigate" only wormholes are a far better counter to "complete safety" as it makes it easier to inject scouts into a system in which you can then stage a fleet in for later action.

Rolling our 3bil C2-C5 static will be so much fun.
Up to 6.3 km away from jump range in BS. And every time we connect to a major PvP group we will lose ships or have to log for the night.

Give C2s the income to feed 100 ppl and we will be able to defend our collapsing BS and give a fight.

I only have one question: How far does our titian come out on the other side?

The defender in a wormhole should have all of the advantages as stated above. This makes attacking even more risky and gives the defender even more advantages. It will lead to more LOL-RNG kills of people trying to roll holes, but it's not going to generate large scale fights.

Rolling holes for the most part in C6/C5 space is about finding fights and possibly ganks. You are again making this harder to do. Would Rooks And Kings have bothered trying to roll for AHARM in Clarion Call 3 if it was going to take them 10 times as long?

Lets say there was no risk, just the wasted time in rolling holes in motoring back to the hole is a red flag. Right now null sec is stuck in stagnation because epic structure grinding is totally boring. Now you want to throw a similar mechanic in wormhole space - wasting more and more game time.

How about for a change CCP carefully think this change through? CCP, your thinking is flawed. If the idea is to induce more risk to a certain behavior you will get what Eve players will always do, make that risk/reward calculation. The result of that calculation will precipitate a decision that it is less worth the risk.

The other changes on cursory review seem fine, this one is flawed.