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[Hyperion] Jump Drive Economizer Modules

First post First post
Author
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2014-08-04 11:18:13 UTC
Jamaica Merchant wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The primary goal here is to provide an interesting set of choices to capital pilots (especially Jump Freighter pilots) in how to fill up their low slots for any given activity.


I can hardly think of anything more interesting than contemplating capital low slots.




lol.. that... specially JF.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kane Fenris
NWP
#122 - 2014-08-04 11:21:54 UTC
Mindo Junde wrote:

the word your looking for is heterogeneous, beyond that your are correct


sry for the offtopic but i have to....
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/inhomogeneous
beaconBoy SavesTheDay
Galactic Hauling Solutions Inc.
#123 - 2014-08-04 14:41:38 UTC
Sugar Kyle wrote:
It is a module that comes from a BPC that drops in a spawning site in low sec. I guess we should encourage more people to do besieged sites to keep the prices down, mmm?


Look at how CCP's changes for this summer have been tweaked wtih both low sec capsuleers and jump freighter pilots in mind. Looks like my vote for Sugar Kyle for CSM9 has already paid dividend!

Where can I make a campaign contribution for your run for CSM10?
Kari Trace
#124 - 2014-08-04 15:18:18 UTC
@OP: Did CCP not just increase the size of ozone as a direct result of how cheap and easy it is to move capitals across the map? Adding modules to make it cheap again defeats the purpose of encouraging local markets, causing capital movement costs to rise, and reducing the easy of movement for said hulls.

If anything make it HARDER for jump drive hulls to move vast distances, not easier. I promise right here as soon as these possible modules hit market every carrier and up pilot will be required to have them in their cargo hold. Also....hulls with higher number of low slots will gain an inherent advantage, perpetuating armor capital doctrines and relegating shield capital doctrines to near laughable non-usage.

0.02 ISK

I like making things explode.

Kari Trace

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#125 - 2014-08-04 20:13:57 UTC
Kari Trace wrote:
@OP: Did CCP not just increase the size of ozone as a direct result of how cheap and easy it is to move capitals across the map? Adding modules to make it cheap again defeats the purpose of encouraging local markets, causing capital movement costs to rise, and reducing the easy of movement for said hulls.

If anything make it HARDER for jump drive hulls to move vast distances, not easier. I promise right here as soon as these possible modules hit market every carrier and up pilot will be required to have them in their cargo hold. Also....hulls with higher number of low slots will gain an inherent advantage, perpetuating armor capital doctrines and relegating shield capital doctrines to near laughable non-usage.

0.02 ISK



I didn't realize that there were caps with less than 4 low slots. cause you know that after 4 mods the stacking penalty makes more useless.
Alexis Nightwish
#126 - 2014-08-04 23:02:53 UTC
You want to make nullsec more local and less spread out? More "home-grown" and less of an import society? Then stop enabling jump travel. Scrap these mods.

And if you absolutely have to have these damn things, make them a FLAT decrease in jump fuel cost. Like 100, 150, 200. And no those numbers are not per LY, they are per jump.

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

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Carniflex
StarHunt
Mordus Angels
#127 - 2014-08-05 09:39:30 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
You want to make nullsec more local and less spread out? More "home-grown" and less of an import society? Then stop enabling jump travel. Scrap these mods.

And if you absolutely have to have these damn things, make them a FLAT decrease in jump fuel cost. Like 100, 150, 200. And no those numbers are not per LY, they are per jump.


There is no point in introducing useless modules. If modules are introduced they must make some sense to fit, even if their reasonable usage cases happen to be situational with very small niche.

As addressed in multiple occasions the outright removal of jump drives from EVE will not stop power projection on its own. Although it for sure would be a very populist move in a sense of addressing one of the more visible effects instead of going after the root causes. And ofc like all populist moves it would have significant "unintended consequences" which are obvious to anyone with few brain cells to rub together.

Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... THWONK! GOT the bastard.

Sigras
Conglomo
#128 - 2014-08-06 00:59:28 UTC
Voyager Arran wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Please make the modules capital sized (>=4000 m^3) otherwise you may as well just reduce the jump fuel cost of all ships by 25% and call it a day...

If these modules are allowed to be 5 m^3 like most other modules not specifically tied to a ship class then every carrier will just carry around 4-5 of them and insta switch them out when they land.


The currently planned volume of these modules is 3500m3


People need to pay more attention to this detail.

At best, a carrier can tote around two, and that leaves them without room for any other capital modules in their fleet hangar and also gives up 7,000 m3 that could have just been more fuel. Dreads won't be able to carry any of them at all.

And that's the way Uh-huh Uh-huh I like it.

You want cheaper fuel costs, there must be some trade off.
Elmar Windlicht
Liga Freier Terraner
Northern Coalition.
#129 - 2014-08-06 03:40:26 UTC
So:
Let's be reasonable. The first choice of moving large amounts of [insert something] would be the Anshar because of it's cargo-to-fuel ratio.
An 3x Cargo Expander Anshar has 341.990,9m^3,
an 2x Cargo Expander Anshar has 268.228,1m^3 (all presumed Freighter IV).
So if I am reading the numbers correctly: What you are proposing is a factor 0.783fuckme decrease in cargo hold (spelled out for the public: -21.5686blerg%) to gain a (at maximum, probably horribly expensive) -10% decrease in Jump Fuel? I'd like to know the sales guy who could convince me that this would be a grand idea after you screwed over small corporations by increasing their fuel costs. If you want to disturb power projection by this, go for carriers, moms, titans. Just accept a mistake, accept it and step back from it.
But introducing a module that does not make sense at it's first glance is rather insulting.
Anthar Thebess
#130 - 2014-08-06 07:50:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Make those only for non combat designed capital ships only , so :
- Jump Freighters
- Rorquals

Jumping supercapitals is already way to cheep now.

EDIT.
After reading last few posts , i can agree people will not be using this on JF because space you get using expanders will "pay" more for the fuel than fuel you can save.

Unless additional from this module will not be similar to the bulkheads without penalty to cargo hold - almost no one will be using them.
Allowing those modules to be fitted to combat (super)capitals - will be a mistake.

So if you put work to this module - we will get "besieged..." that will not be worth doing in most cases , as BPC you get from it will be totally worthless.


Whatever you decide, please don't allow this module/drug/implant/installation to affect any thing else than Rorqual and JF.
No other capital and super capital should get bonus to reduced fuel usage.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2014-08-06 08:16:18 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
So travel fits will now include a step to fit these right before you jump then change back to cap recharge fit. I guess that adds a few seconds.


Very much this.

Swapping modules is far to convenient and fast to make any of this an interesting choice. Its more like tedium tbo.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~

Christopher Tsutola
State Navy
#132 - 2014-08-06 08:35:46 UTC
so how long do you think it will take for Fozzie to abandon this post and just go ahead with the changes?
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2014-08-06 08:40:34 UTC
im in the wrong topic
Kane Fenris
NWP
#134 - 2014-08-06 11:53:27 UTC
Christopher Tsutola wrote:
so how long do you think it will take for Fozzie to abandon this post and just go ahead with the changes?


wait ... your saying this hasnt already happened?
im confused Question
Shaklu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2014-08-06 19:02:34 UTC
While I can see, with the addition of low slots on freighters, this making sense; I just don't see why you would increase the amount to jump simply to decrease it again. Especially when almost every other post on the forums is asking for jumping to be harder, not easier.

It makes me think that perhaps the changes that will be done to null to make it better for everyone or harder for blue doughnut to exist, will then be changed back by adding some expensive and hard to get things that only vast mega-alliances are capable of getting in vast quantities, therefore changing nothing. I certainly hope that doesn't happen.

I also agree with the people who say make it a Freighter/Rorq only mod or rig. I read on another post about how it makes little sense that small ships take forever to travel long distances and massive slow capitals can get there instantly (which makes tons of sense) and this just seems to be ignoring that idea, which I find is a good one.

The problem with nerfing jump ranges or fuel costs is that it makes logistics a nightmare.. and EVE runs on logistics.. so give them a boost, but not the combat ships that most agree (via oodles of forum posts) need to get scaled down.
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#136 - 2014-08-07 15:02:12 UTC
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

After some more discussion we're going to go ahead and limit the fitting of these modules to Jump Freighters and Rorquals. Those are the only places where they would see extensive use anyways and the rest of the ships were muddying the waters a bit too much.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#137 - 2014-08-07 15:17:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

After some more discussion we're going to go ahead and limit the fitting of these modules to Jump Freighters and Rorquals. Those are the only places where they would see extensive use anyways and the rest of the ships were muddying the waters a bit too much.


It seems logical to me.

Does this change of mind also comes with a change of volume?

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CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#138 - 2014-08-07 15:27:02 UTC
Altrue wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

After some more discussion we're going to go ahead and limit the fitting of these modules to Jump Freighters and Rorquals. Those are the only places where they would see extensive use anyways and the rest of the ships were muddying the waters a bit too much.


It seems logical to me.

Does this change of mind also comes with a change of volume?


Not at this time, no.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

TAckermassacker
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#139 - 2014-08-07 15:28:46 UTC
everyone wants to gank travelfit carriers, please let them exchange their damage control for a fuel conversator!
GameFreak X
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#140 - 2014-08-07 15:28:48 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks for the feedback so far.

After some more discussion we're going to go ahead and limit the fitting of these modules to Jump Freighters and Rorquals. Those are the only places where they would see extensive use anyways and the rest of the ships were muddying the waters a bit too much.


Gosh darn it fozzie.

I was really looking forward to putting some on my suitecase carrier which basically gets used like a jump freighter for fitted ships (Move a lot of ships, often). I would been happy with rigs for the thing. Why do you have to go and take this away from me?