Science & Industry

I really don't think you're going to find HICs popping out of the bushes. They're expensive, and you're going to most likely find them not on a roam, but coming in on a ghostrider or sitting on a titan (and doubtful you'll be mining in titan range of a enemy staging system) and your main threat will be dictors anyhow, which are ubiquitous enough already.

How about this - scrap its boosting role entirely. Just get rid of it and avoid the "sitting duck in a belt" issue entirely should OGB come to pass. Replace its role with something like a ORE faction battlecruiser-sized ship, which hooks into the standard Command Ships skill. Hell, take the Eos and its drone bonus, replace its boosting bonuses with one for Mining and Siege links, up its CPU a good chunk and let it be the mother hen in the belt... tailor-made for fleet protection and boosting not only the miners, but any other attending defense as well. Introduce ORE faction mindlinks which bonus mining and siege links.

As for the Rorq? nerf its cargo hold down, increase its ore hold, replace the remote shield rep bonus with a refining facility that has a compelling efficiency rate (see below) and is keyed against the Cap. Industrial Ships skill. Scrap its roid scanner and tractor beam bonus; allow capital tractors to be fit to any capital; and give it a jump fuel reduction bonus (with a higher base consumption rate) in its place. Compression stays as-is. Refining/Compression should still require a siege cycle outside of a POS. Siege cycles less than 5 minutes but no less than 2.5 minutes could be considered.

It'll retain its role as a mining fleet mothership - a place to dump ore and process it, to store relevant ships (the ORE Command Ship would be allowed to enter its SMA) and it will be a ship that offers a choice for all miners from highsec to 0.0 (highsec miners can maintain a Rorq in lowsec to process their ore at efficiencies local facilities can't offer)



I said "at or near" - I kept it open for variance for a reason. Somewhere between a lowsec station and an outpost, which is still lots of room for CCP to choose a number. Also good point on the super-compressed ore... I hadn't thought of that issue.

I personally like the Orca as a booster. It is currently invulnerable as an off grid booster. If they just make it invulnerable as an on-grid booster all will be well. They just need to work out the details of how much it will be able to do while invulnerable, and how much it will be able to protect its exhumers while invulnerable. Will the exhumers be able to make use of the invulnerability, will the Rorq be able to provide reps and drones while invulnerable, etc. But for me, keeping it as an on-grid booster is fine, and making it invulnerable is fine, as long as it can only go invulnerable in asteroid belts, and as long as it can get in and out in tandem with being invulnerable.

I also like the Rorq as a poor-man's jump freighter and a premier material (compressed ore) hauler. That's actually my main use for the Rorqual currently. I don't see a need to reduce the cargo hold, and the ore bay should at least keep current volume and preferably have it increased a bit. The reason for keeping the cargo hold fairly large is that it can be filled with ore on the way to the manufacturing base and it can be filled with low-volume products on the way to market. Reducing the cargo bay would result in a requirement for a JF going one way, to market, and a Rorqual going the other way going to the manufacturing hub. While an elite player will have both a Rorq and a JF, this process will still be annoying for him, and the lower level industrialist who can't afford the JF and who can't maintain an extra pilot should be able to make do with a Rorq alone.

I also think other changes and buffs for the Rorqual are definitely worth looking at. Giving the Rorq the ability to bridge indy ships is a suggestion that will be very beneficial to industrialists, and I also think that Clone Vat Bays need to be improved so that we can truly store clones in the Rorq and not just create clones in the Rorq.

But overall, the Rorq's setup and roles are clear and successful, contrary to what a number of posters are suggesting, save that it needs a POS. The simple solution is to pretty much keep the Rorqual as is but move it on grid and remove need for a POS.

I've done a ton of commenting on the Rorqual and am getting to the point where there's really nothing left for me to say, so I'll probably be posting less from here on. But this is really my two cents. Making the Rorq a capital mining barge, radically changing the whole schema of how it operates such as removing boosting altogether and replacing it with other methods of operation are likely not to solve the Rorq's problems and create a bunch of new systems which will likely be at least partially broken and need further balancing as they are tested.

Also, one of my objectives for the Rorq is to make it useful as a low sec ship and a ship for busy areas of null. "You're not going to be mining within bridge range of a Titan" does not meet my goals for the ship. It should be functional anywhere 0.4 or below as far as I'm concerned. So HICs are a threat. Once again, invulnerability it a very simple and effective answer. Now while POS bubbles and invulnerability have been suggested by many people I am aware that I have not attracted many adherents on this thread and others, although those who refuse to consider invulnerability have not really given any justification for the Rorqual beyond what seems to me to be their desire to continue to see Rorquals on killmails. Well, ultimately, seeing Rorquals on killmails will result in Rorquals not being used. Alliances do not provide Rorqual SRP like they do carriers and dreads. Very few alliances are willing to provide fleet support for mining ops like they will provide fleet support for tower shoots. The Rorqual lives in a very different world from the other ships that cost 2 billion ISK and siege for 5 minutes. I think this has to be considered when aiming for a successful Rorqual. Once again, invulnerability is the answer.

Random idea that kicks the Rorqual refit into the Pos code rework.

The Rorqual has a 1,150 CPU AND 381,250 GRID before adjustments for modules. Well below a the fitting ability of a small tower. Allow the Rorqual to stand in as a anchored and onlined control tower while sieged. This grants it the ability to deploy Pos and online pos modules within 2500 meters of its location. There would be the default ban on deploying deployable structures within radius of stations and gates but would allow deploying modules within belts. Even if it was deployed as a small death star tower, we all know how OP these are without active gunners and pos defense AI is less than effective.

It would still be best at hauling it in/out of low/null since it can carry more ore than a JF and less fuel as well. It also can do the same trick as the T1 freighter along with it's other capabilities. The only problem with this right now is the rorquals lack if mobility (industrial core)

Ridiculous and false. PvPers can protect their combat capitals by undocking them with a fleet of sub caps for security. Miners don't get that. Really, the only option that miners have when hostiles come around is to dock up. If we had fleets of sub caps providing security for us, things would be different, and some of these other proposals might work. But we don't, and we won't so they won't.

And I call BS on your being able to tackle me. Of course you wouldn't just name the system. And of course you didn't name even an approximate timeframe where this supposed engagement would have happened, because it didn't.

EDIT: Scratch that. I remember a time when I was making jump clones for some toons so, in a system that does begin with an H, I undocked and warped to an off-grid Insta at which point I aligned to a POS. So if indeed you were fast enough and accurate enough to find me in my off-grid insta then you could have tackled me while I was aligning, but you would have been popped by my Widow who was guarding me at the insta because I am not just a miner, but have several accounts, some of which are PvP toons. Since I have only made jump clones twice with my Rorqual, months apart, and since I never will again since I've moved to null and made all the JCs I will ever need, I think your criticism is ridiculous. If it's even true, because you would have had only one chance ever, and you would have just given me a kill.

I've never lost a Rorqual. I have never lost a JF. My Rorqual has been engaged once when I lit a bad cyno and had to slowboat a few hundred meters. My Rorqual could have been engaged 2 or 3 other times but nobody bothered because they would have died.

I wager you didn't tackle me when you saw my Rorqual aligning (if you even did, since your 'a few time times...warping around' comment reeks of BS) because you didn't know what you'd be getting into, and probably didn't have what it would take to survive my Ogres long enough for your friends to get there even if I didn't have a BLOPs there to kill you. Since most pure PvPers are so risk averse they can't stand the thought of engaging in any kind of a situation where there are any unknowns and there is any chance of losing, you rightly decided not to tackle my Rorqual and insodoing preserved your life.

Saying you could tackle me when I am sitting zero on station and can dock up doesn't count, dude. If you need me to teach you PvP I am game.

****, I have only ever left station in my Rorqual one time, to a throwaway POS I had put up an hour earlier and took down the next day. Come on, claiming you could get my Rorq in the process of docking? You can pop a frig before it docks, but I wasn't in one of those. This crap makes me wonder what the hell else you're lying about. Certainly the 'few times' and 'warping around' were lies, seeing as I have only ever done anything in that system besides undocking and cynoing ONE time. Claiming you have 20 accounts means either you're lying or you're bad at Eve if you need all that to accomplish your goals and don't have anything better to spend your ISK on than all those PLEX.

And then you accuse me of not being able to comprehend the idea of being a miner and a PvPer when in your judgy way you stupidly call me just a miner who can't comprehend the idea of preparing for combat. This, my friend, doesn't square up. It's so Ironic that another poster tried to claim my ideas couldn't have merit because I wasn't enough of a miner. Basically, Eve players are just asses. No other way to see it.

It all just makes me tremble in awe of your meme-ness.

I'm only here to provide input on a Rorqual update, not get into a pissing match with you. I'm glad you love yourself and think you're great. As for me, I had no faith in the human race before this garbage and I have even less now. I've basically decided to be done with the forums. Can't stand all the garbage. Frankly CCP can do whatever the hell they want with the Rorq. I don't think I'll be subbing too much longer. At any rate I am done with the forums.

Please stop having opinions about things you know little to nothing about. It's embarrassing to read.

Give her a capital strip miner with 100 km range that allows it to rival the Hulk. I'll put the Rorq in a belt aligned to a POS all day for that.

It would be great if the Rorqual could refine at decent efficiency. That could balance out being stuck in a system with a high refining tax rate.

I Remember CCP making a promise that they would have a plan for updating the Roqual in the next Update. We have yet to see any dev blogs or information in regards to this. Has the Roqual gone the way of the dodo? looking for something from CCP to let me know why i should keep this ship.

Yes, they are making a significant change to Rorquals that are going to impact their usage in the upcoming patch:

"-Max Jump Drive Range is now 5ly"