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Crius Feedback

First post First post
Author
Bobby Artrald
Capitalist Pigs Inc.
#361 - 2014-07-25 02:06:48 UTC
Bobby Artrald wrote:
I thought the corp hanger array was supposed to be increased to 3m m3

Thanks for implementing this!
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
#362 - 2014-07-25 02:51:24 UTC
Mara Kell wrote:
After further investigation about the BPO transition to Crius i would like to hear from a Dev, how the picture i have linked is consistant with "no blueprint gets functionally worse".

I have made a chart with the needed cap parts for building one run of Archon with the pre Crius BPOs and the post Crius BPOs.
My own was transitionen from ME 6 to ME -9. As you can see in the graph my BPO went from allmost perfect to pretty useless and now needs 8 capital parts more to build an archon than before.

Archon capital parts comparison

The comparison also shows that every single archon BPO no matter what ME level got worse. But basicly the closer you had researched it to 10, the more you got shafted because only the former ME 10+ BPOs are of any use now.

So my BPOs got functionally worse, and not only a small bit... Any comments CCP?

The reason for this mess is pretty obvious. Its the new calculation formula that rounds up in combination with low part numbers of small capital ships.

I feel your pain. Please pass it back to CCP by unsubbing your industry toons
My freighter BPOs are all virtually worthless they were great at ME 4 before the patch now they are at ME 8%.
So now I am years in research behind top efficiency (and a few billion in isk) and the cost to build went up.
So instead of being useful for production, or invention or even selling the BPCs now I have a bunch of near useless freighter BPOs.
Thanks CCP My industry alt is getting unsubbed...and once I run out of ships then my pvp toons will follow
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
#363 - 2014-07-25 02:56:43 UTC
Steijn wrote:
just checking at sticking 1 level of ME on an already part researched Fenrir BPO, prices range from under 1m to 51m depending on location, that I understand. However, it says time that it will take is 257d

WTF??


Its worthless now buddy...sorry
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
#364 - 2014-07-25 03:01:28 UTC
Bellasarius Baxter wrote:
First observation: Pre-patch I had a perfectly researched Orca blueprint, which took quite some time.
It was at ML=6 pre-patch.
Now I have a blueprint at 9%, and am looking at 257 days of research, and 828 MILLION ISK in research cost to make it perfect again.

You guys at CCP has got to be kidding me!

It has been a great 7 years mostly, but this screw-up is simply unforgivable.

Sorry guys, you really blew it this time.


Wow I'm not the only one...
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
#365 - 2014-07-25 03:06:41 UTC
Alexsis Solette wrote:
This is a Post about production in POSes

I know there has always been a mechanic whereby production services could be charged for and that a corporation wallet access was required to make the payment. However, if a corp didn't want to charge its other wallets it could set access to 0 isk. This still required users to "technically" have a wallet access (while in fact a corp wallet access at any time in that pilots history seemed to qualify). What did this result in? An individual could use facilities in a corporation pos without actually having wallet access as long as those services didn't cost anything.

New change: there is now an arbitrary price that must be paid due to "taxes". Because corporations own these modules the corporation wallet must be used to pay for the jobs. Result? Nobody can do manufacturing out of a pos unless they have access to a corporation wallet which is incredibly insecure...

I feel I must protest this. Although I have access to a corporate wallet as a director many of the other industrialists in my corporation do not and with this change they will no longer be able to do any sort of production in our wormhole because they won't be getting access to a corporate wallet. Is the only real solution to require every player who wants to do POS based production to start their own corporation so they can then use a corporate wallet to pay for their jobs?


You will have to 'Trust' them now and give them access to a wallet.
Maybe make the wallet an empty one and they will have to donate to it to be able to charge jobs on it.
It's ridiculous that you would have to waste one like that, but CCP obviously didn't think about the second and third order effects of this patch
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2014-07-25 03:42:33 UTC
After playing around much more today with the new indy window im left with the following things

1 - its too big (many ppl have said this) I am adding my voice to it

2 - the system index "bar" is 1000% daft - please show the ACTUAL value - this is driving me absolutely mad trying to do math and not knowing what the variable is. Its completely bad design imho to hide this.

~R~


Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
#367 - 2014-07-25 03:46:33 UTC
Akira Menoko wrote:
I have a collection of capital ship BPOs that before Crius were all researched to have no waste, which took about 3/4 of a year to do depending on the blueprint. Now that Crius is out these BPOs have a lot more waste and in order to get rid of it I have to spend another 3/4 of a year or so researching it away. Not to mention the high installation cost to do such a job.

Now in the EVE Industry - All you want to know dev blog made just a week ago, it's stated that
Quote:
The guiding goal with this translation is "no blueprint gets functionally worse" i.e. the materials needed for a single run should be the same or less after the transition.


My blueprints are functionally worse after the Crius Patch. They require more materials for a single run.

I know I'm not the only person who's capital BPOs have gotten worse with the Crius patch. So my question now is, what's CCP going to do to fix this situation?

Edit: grammar fix

Probably nothing.
Time to cancel your subscription to get your point across to the idiots in charge at CCP.
They are only concerned with the bottom line make it hurt to them there and they may listen.
Kesker
The Sagan Clan
#368 - 2014-07-25 04:13:29 UTC
Check my account CCP.

Canceled. Adios!!!
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#369 - 2014-07-25 07:06:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik
Unlike my previous feedback post in this thread which is mostly negative, this one will include some positive feedback for Crius release. Please note that I still stand behind each negative point that I have posted in my first feedback post.

- "Industry" tab on items that shows rough amount materials for building an item and amount of minerals you can get by refining the ore is an excellent idea. Great job!

- Industry UI looks and sounds great;

- The amount of clicks is reduced greatly for industrial activities and it really feels more streamlined. It's a bit overwhelming at first, but once I got to play with it for a bit, it all made sense. Even though I can't really tell whether it's new user friendly or not, it certainly helps to have everything in one place (window) so you can learn from one place instead of multiple windows;

- Reprocessing icons (items and result materials) are too small;

- Reprocessing in the POS module does not show the reprocessing menu (I guess that should go into "Issues" thread);

- There should be a column for team bids (system and offered price) instead of a tooltip;

- Filters on the Industrial window are very useful. Great job!

- There should be a preview of the results when putting blueprint to research. The old system had this and it was very useful. ME +2% does not mean much without previewing the actual result before installing the job;

- Since anyone who wants to have any profit now by doing industry just has to do it at a POS (because of the ridiculous prices and a horrible implementation of "System cost index") I must say this one in bolded, underlined, italic caps in order to emphasize it for CCP (sorry for the reading inconvenience). There was a dev post in F&I sub-forum about increasing fitting requirements for industrial modules, so:

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVEN THINK OF IMPLEMENTING SUCH ATROCITY.
This GAME is supposed to provide fun and interesting gameplay and NOT be a chore. The amount of micro-management now is high enough that adding even more will drastically deteriorate the quality of the game. Industry in its current iteration is engaging and challenging enough without adding meaningless chore tasks that don't provide ANY quality to the actual gameplay whatsoever.
Teko Tedeko
CWD INC.
#370 - 2014-07-25 09:45:22 UTC
Two issues if CCP are still reading this thread. Probably already logged.
1. no invention info available from BPO 'show info' window. only able to find out invent details from BPCs
2. can't drag/drop blueprint links from the industry window
Lore Varan
Caltech Shipyards
#371 - 2014-07-25 09:56:50 UTC
The manufacturing window is better than before but I am still having to use my calculator / spread sheet far too much.

move the facility info panel and input output selectors to the left hand side of the manufacturing window.

move output panel up to top and add some more information on the right under the output panel.

Material Cost Estimate 1,000,000
Installation Cost 234,567
Total Build Cost 1,234,567

Estimate Items value 1,034,567
Estimate Profit 200,000

Vrykolakasis
Sparrowhawks Corp
#372 - 2014-07-25 10:01:28 UTC
No exact feedback on industry since I don't do it (beyond a mostly failed attempt at making ammo when I first started the game, and a 10% ME Drake BPO I will probably never use), although with all of the concern about capital prices I did finally decide to buy the capitals I've wanted for a while. I should also note, in an attempt to be helpful, that I've never touched industry and maybe never will, but the new UI, for whatever faults it has or things it's missing from the old one (I wouldn't know), it is more inviting and I may just try out a bit of making stuff to see how it works.

Positive feedback on pretty much everything else in the patch notes, the stuff that I understand. All of the stuff from the Cruis little things blog, as well as the starbase capacity changes and the capital movement cost changes (still negligible, and maybe it was only because of some other change, but I do like the cost of expensive capital transport, at least for non-freighters).

I don't like the *idea* of the new six week release schedule, I would much prefer a few good, full-featured expansions released less often, but (no offense) since this is pretty much as full-featured as any of the expansions since Incursion, good work!
WESSPER
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#373 - 2014-07-25 10:29:19 UTC
Because of the lot of discussion about job pricing in systems, I think we really need the job cost tab as was suggested in dev blogs http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/the-price-of-change/ (not sure why it was removed). It would take out a lot confusing if we can see what makes the enormous cost. Is it because of taxes, number of jobs, or simply the system composition of facilities is not good enough.

It is a specially this part of blog (sorry for wall of text):

Quote:
System facilities: stations in a given system make a job cheaper. We want to ensure that the landscape is lumpy rather than flat, and it makes sense that systems with more stations (and more factory or research stations in particular) are better places to do specialized work. Every station in a system has two facility multipliers -- one for manufacturing and one for research -- and the system's various multipliers are all multiplied together and then multiplied with the price. (We do a lot of multiplication with pricing, and we therefore wield large calculators)

For NPC stations, these multipliers range between 0.95 and 0.98, based on how well the station's activity (factory, testing facility, warehouse etc) is judged to be suited to building and/or researching things. Stations can have different ratings for manufacturing and research. These are not huge numbers, but because they multiply together they can have a big effect. In manufacturing, the current record-holder in empire space is Nonni, with a multiplier of around 0.48 - building things in Nonni will, all other things being equal, halve the cost of installing a job.


We may believe it is implemented, but we have no tool to see the real effect it has. Common bring back the total job cost tab.
Inquisitor Tyr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#374 - 2014-07-25 10:46:16 UTC
This "expansion" is bad. Did you hire the same guy who decided it was a good idea to nerf drone minerals for this one? Remember that one where you goofed up the mineral market, and risk-reward balance, so bad you had to redo the mineral refine recipes to add things like thousands of Tritanium to Arkonor etc?

CCP - You are good when you iterate on PvP and introduce interesting new things (probably because you hired PvPers and your CSM is 95% PVP alliances); However, you are not good at industry.

So why so bad at Indy? Probably because you listen to industry pilots when making Industry decisions. See, the thing with empire carebears (aka indy players) is, most of them have no macro concept of the game. They generally focus on individualistic goals and have mediocre group focus. So if you listen to anything they have to say (if you can get over the mouth breathing) it generally winds up with "why they feel such and such is unfair" and "I feel i should receive compensation". Believe me, I have had to deal with this sort of complaint time and time again.

So this expansion shipped with a lot of stuff. I haven't really noticed any of it - But I did notice I had to charge my corp mates a lot more to ship their assets. Will this change our behavior? Not at all. Its a necessity of life. Whill this make me use my carrier less? Not at all - its a necessity of nullsec. Will I use my dreadnaught less? No, of course not. In fact it changes nothing aside from costing more. It doesn't affect power projection and it doesn't affect the underlying nullsec issues you are grasping at.

Is that a big deal? Not really. But like I said: What did this expansion bring my gameplay? Well - more expenses and less money to spend on ships I can go out with my corp mates and enjoy dying in a ball of fire in.

Shame ccp. Shame.

My recommendation:
1) Find out which member of the dev team is the AFK ice miner in empire who feels his life is unfair/demands compensation.
2) Throw him in the ocean.
3) Teabag his watery corpse and post it on YouTube.
Gaijin Lanis
Gallente Federation
#375 - 2014-07-25 10:56:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gaijin Lanis
Antihrist Pripravnik wrote:
Since anyone who wants to have any profit now by doing industry just has to do it at a POS (because of the ridiculous prices and a horrible implementation of "System cost index") I must say this one in bolded, underlined, italic caps in order to emphasize it for CCP (sorry for the reading inconvenience). There was a dev post in F&I sub-forum about increasing fitting requirements for industrial modules, so:

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EVEN THINK OF IMPLEMENTING SUCH ATROCITY.
This GAME is supposed to provide fun and interesting gameplay and NOT be a chore. The amount of micro-management now is high enough that adding even more will drastically deteriorate the quality of the game. Industry in its current iteration is engaging and challenging enough without adding meaningless chore tasks that don't provide ANY quality to the actual gameplay whatsoever.


The problem. as it stands, is one can either have a swiss army tower that can do everything as well as can be done with great defenses or a focused tower with enough turrets to insta-pop dreads. This is clearly a bad situation no matter what. So something does need to be done to increase tower variety from the two variations that currently exist. The hope is increasing the PG/CPU requirements will also mean a reduction in the amount of space-hobos who've suddenly infested everyone's structures and are now holding said structures hostage. As that **** is bananas. It's like building a house and suddenly a bunch of beggars invade demand you pay them to use your bathroom.

The above was written and posted with nothing but love in my heart for all.

Jamaica Merchant
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#376 - 2014-07-25 12:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamaica Merchant
nevermind ....
Yongtau Naskingar
Yongtau Naskingar Corporation
#377 - 2014-07-25 12:21:27 UTC
When placing a bid on a team, the system field should have the previous value (pre-selected, like bookmarks), so you only have to press enter.
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Pandemic Horde
#378 - 2014-07-25 12:22:55 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
After playing around much more today with the new indy window im left with the following things

1 - its too big (many ppl have said this) I am adding my voice to it

2 - the system index "bar" is 1000% daft - please show the ACTUAL value - this is driving me absolutely mad trying to do math and not knowing what the variable is. Its completely bad design imho to hide this.

~R~



I second this! Especially this bar is totally useless, i want to see numbers.
Jinn Aideron
#379 - 2014-07-25 13:33:27 UTC
Mara Kell wrote:
Regan Rotineque wrote:
2 - the system index "bar" is 1000% daft - please show the ACTUAL value - this is driving me absolutely mad trying to do math and not knowing what the variable is. Its completely bad design imho to hide this.
I second this! Especially this bar is totally useless, i want to see numbers.


All the numbers you could possibly want:
http://public-crest.eveonline.com/industry/systems/


YW

Stealth deletes are bad.

Ivan Isovich
Clutter Conglomerate
CAStabouts
#380 - 2014-07-25 14:22:26 UTC
Suggestions:

In the new S&I interface, in the blueprint list have a total count of blueprints in the list displayed in the header. Have this count consistent with the filters used by the player.

It is tough to sort through a large number of BP copies and originals. The S&I window nicely separates originals and copies, but when you're trying to move the BP's to a new location, this BP list will lag as you click on a BP to move it to its new destination (such as moving to a ship on your inventory screen). 2 suggestions here:
1. Don't load the job results when the user clicks and holds a BP....only upon releasing the click. The display lag makes you wonder for a second or two whether the drag and drop action actually occurred.
2. Adjust the Inventory window's custom filter settings to allow a custom filter sorting both originals and copies. Since the current filter options are Group > Blueprint > 'item category' , I'd suggest breaking the middle one, "Blueprint" into Blueprint Original and Blueprint Copy, and maintaining the 'item category' options. That would give the user significant flexibility in adjusting the filter itself.

Thanks!