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So we're talking not the next release but the release after that for potential changes?

This.

These other skills you're talking about are great ideas. Some will find them more useful than others, and some will train them to different levels than others. They should all be added, as they would provide tremendous benefit to the game overall, and, as you guys have suggested, would allow industrialists to specialize in particular aspects of their profession.

Re-tooling a skill designed for a now-extinct game feature into one of those very interesting and variably useful skills is rather obtuse, and no matter which skill you choose, you are forcing the majority of your industrialist customer base into specializing in that particular way. You're not creating choice, you're eliminating choice.


An option might be to use the current SP count in the current skill to be duplicated across all of the new skills that have been proposed and/or discussed in the course of this thread. This is similar to what you guys have done before with Battlecruisers, Destroyers, and most recently with the drone skills.

But that begs the question: if you are able to take the highest SP count in either of two drone skills and apply that to a new skill, how is taking one single SP count and incrementing a single number that much more complex?

It's a skill that was mandatory but no longer has any use or meaning whatsoever following the changes. Like the Learning skills. This means just about everyone who does industry will have it. None of these new skills are mandatory. There won't be a fair and equitable way to distribute the SP from this skill except to give extra SP to all players by duplicating the SP multiple times across multiple new skills, just because of the "mandatory" status of the previous skill.

Compared to refunding the SP -- and refunded SP are VERY valuable, especially if it's likely they were trained at or near max SP/hr -- continually gifting free SP is what devalues SP.


The real danger of going ahead with the changes as currently planned is that you are guaranteeing that nothing more will be done with the skill. At that point, the new behaviour is already in the game -- remember, this is behaviour that the majority seem to think is useful to some degree, so it is likely to remain in the game. Since the skill will then already exist and be in use, there is greater momentum behind not doing anything else to it. So you will implement what was planned, no extra dev time will be required, customers be damned. Most of us work under management who place demands on us too, not just you guys, so this is not an unrealistic scenario.

Until a real solution is determined, please don't push the skill change but instead let the current skill sit useless and untrainable. This will ensure that something happens to it in an iteration.

(Nullsec Titan builders will be okay without the immediate time boost. Really they will.)

I'm ok with that. I also think that the job install cost would be better than the time savings, if even only marginally so. But again, my vote is still that either way this is a huge waste of SP given the previous bonus. The only correct answer for paying customers is reimbursement and that should matter more than what you would "like to do" and what your design goals are. Right answers usually take more time and effort, there's usually a reason for that.

No, it isn't unrealistic. CCP has shown previously that not only is this realistic that its possible for them to do and possible with a good deal of accuracy.

Oh I've read the thread, I have no problem with the reasons why its not realistic for the 22nd. What I have a problem with is his reasons why it can't happen period. I'm fine with waiting for the reimbursement to happen in the next release 6-8 weeks from now. I work in IT as well and I have a lot of patience. I think you merely misunderstood the intent of my post.

Crius ( and many of the older patches for that matter ) are full of these proofs that CCP does not value veteran players anymore. How about those who have trained anchoring to 5 in order to get starbase control skill and now they find out that anyone can reach that 2 weeks earlier ?

If you are not going to refund skill points you need to replace it with something to make training that last level (4 to 5) worth while. And so far I have not heard of one example change that would be worth while to take to 5, except maybe in absolute extreme cases.

If it is anything but a decent cost reduction most people will demand an SP refund. Time reductions and cost reductions are VERY different things.

I have a few ideas

Idea 1: we stay with the "Installation Cost Reduction" idea but make each rank worth more. 15% total reduction split 1%/2%/3%/4%/5% per level. So Level is a 1% reduction in cost, Level 2 gives a total of 3%, Level 4 a total of 6%, Level 4 a total of 10%, Level 5 a total of 15%. This give a middle ground between my original 5% idea and your 2% idea, and makes each rank worth more making it worthwhile to Train level V

Idea 2: We make it so we can have "active jobs" and "queued jobs". Repurposed ME job gives us 2 Research Queue slots and 2 Production Queue Slots per level. A queue slot is used when we install a job, but have no more available active job slots. Soon as the active job finishes the queued job starts. [this requires code changes that probably cannot be done by July 22nd]