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Continuing this line of thinking, what incentives exist for W-space residents over hisec residents?

We will both have to pay installation costs. You could respond that W-space industry demand is lower than hisec so costs will be lower, but one would only need move to a remote backward hisec location to possibly find even better costs than in W-space. Sheep mentality will ensure that these places in hisec areas will exist.

W-space basically requires a large POS with numerous and redundant defenses. It's Nullsec + isolation: all the dangers of attacking and being attacked at any time with any weapon in the game except supers, without the benefit of bridging 10,000 of your closest friends at the drop of a hat. Someone intent on burning your towers WILL burn your towers. Hisec gives you 24 hours notice before you can be freely attacked; an active corp wouldn't even need defenses on their towers, and can afford to run medium or small towers because they'd have plenty of warning time to relocate anything valuable.

Can thought please be given to scrapping the installation cost ISK sink for W-space (and Sov Nullsec)? If we hire a special team, sure, that will rightly add costs, and those costs should be based on the installation costs that would otherwise have been applied. But without a special team, the ISK sink doesn't make sense; further penalizing W-space and Sov Nullsec compared to hisec doesn't make sense either, and seems to run contrary to your stated intention that higher risk means higher reward.

It still wouldn't reduce our operating costs to hisec levels, but it might bring overall costs close enough for hisec competition to be more of a factor.

You truly have no clue on the mindset of the bulk of your player base, do you?

Many, many players of Eve do not have the time, the inclination, nor the ability to get involved with the level of "social interaction" that you are forcing them into. When I run incursions, which is a socially interactive situation, players jump on for a couple hours, have some giggles on TeamSpeak, shoot some red X's, and log off. That level of commitment is simple, and relaxing, and fun, which this game is supposed to be.

But the level of intellectual commitment and coordination you are expecting high sec industrialists to engage in is a completely different level, and very few want it or will do it, otherwise they would be doing it today.

You want to kill off the casual player from Eve? Fine. It is your call. It is an incredibly stupid decision, one you will find out soon enough about. I can only wait until you decide mission running, mining, and exploration should require the same level of "social interaction".

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.
The most efficient method to make ISK under the new industry paradigm will be a very small group of null sec cartel industrialists, all with vast armies of alts. That group will operate under very strict conditions about who makes what, when it is made, where, and how much, and what teams will be bid on. Their level of "social interaction" will be minimal, no more than the cartel financial "elite" have today, which is still far more than the high sec players want. Why not just *) state what this always was, another massive gift to the null sec cartels.

One last thing: How on earth will you "revisit this", after you have completely overhauled every single industrial mechanic in the game?


*) *Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal.

Until you actually TRY TO USE THE POS

For whomever is counting...

1 POS coming down (maybe 2), 2 accounts expiring this week.

Teams of NPC's...

Heh - so the pharmacists at Osco Drugs can also work simultaneously at Walgreens fulfilling prescriptions!

Think of them as management teams.

Contradictory rhetoric. How can it be both more flexible and "less time consuming"? One goal behind these changes is to promote lumpiness. Players are now expected to be mobile to some degree to exploit arbitrary changes. That is less time producing. The heat map graphics provided suggest as much. Achieving uniform costs is not a stated goal. And, this is about taking away gains from players who have already invested time and effort to achieve those gains. Currently there already are more options than "least waste" vs not succeeding. You can produce at different depths in your production chains, use consumables to modify output etc.

if you want time savings, let alts delegate work authority to assigned role holders so you don't need to click thru on multiple toons. UI changes will be visually appealing but it was a miss not to solicit player input in a more formal conceptual process.

The whys:
1) They were trying to solve how to drain more isk out of your wallet, therefore grinding more people into the arms of CCP's budget problems with PTW in hand.
2) Marketing says make things more complex, therefore "exciting". Lore and reality check disbelief be damned. (If industry has teams, then by gosh the ship NPC's should have a union! Pay for performance!! )
3) Bone tossing to Sov Null - for not having the balls to actually tackle the serious Sov mechanic nightmare.

That seems like quite an insult but insightful as to your opinion of current high sec industrialists.

To me it should be necessary to interact with the universe certainly but this expectation that I become bum chums with everyone in a system is quite over the top. The absolute last person I want to share my plans with is my competition and yet that is who you expect me to form a long term social relationship with – and apparently wont be happy if I don’t.

The idea of moving around just seems to be a pain in the backside. I don’t sell in a trade hub generally, I have set up my own market by producing a range of related items and selling them in a region where I am the only supplier. I go out and buy my materials from a trade hub or random sell orders and I sell in accordance with a high profit low volume vision of keeping things simple.
To take advantage of teams and sell stuff in the market I created a vital thing is not to encourage my competitors to compete with me, that means a lot of extra freighter time moving things from point of manufacture to point of sale.
I don't have more time to play Eve because you make a more time consuming system so all this patch seems to mean for me is that I can do less in Eve and that the game has significantly less opportunity for the entrepreneurial.

The poor set up of the corporation system seems to be the problem that needs solving. I am in an industrial corporation but do industry by myself since it would be too risky to myself or my corp to work together under the current or proposed system. I don’t use most of my BPO's most of the time and neither does my corp but there is no sensible way of sharing those resources – for example. Setting up my own micro corp so I can have a pos is how the system has been made – that should be a daft thing to do rather than the norm.
There seems endless opportunity to improve the pos and corporation system to allow for co-operation and even if that is a complicated and long term goal it remains frustrating to see resources wasted on this sort of weird artificial mess of a system in the interim.

We want to be social, we dont have and are not about to recieve the necessary tools.