Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Those numbers seem really low, can you explain how do you get to them? (I assume it's optimizing everything with teams, thukker cap component arrarys etc.)

you used a carrier

seriously, do you not remember that a carrier used to be the logistical backbone of 0.0 and the jump freighter was introduced when the carrier was nerfed? (edit: fun fact, goonswarm's first supercapital was built as a logistics ship, xttz's nyx)

also there has never been a time when jump-capable ships did not exist and freighters did. i don't know if people used logistics dreads, but I sure would have.

the forums ate my post deconstructing your faulty memory about what eve used to be, and I'll have to go back and redo it but you appear to badly misremember how things worked based on what was patched in when and I do not believe this era of mining locally and producing locally ever actually existed - much less in FIX, which lived in Querious, a region with its conq refinery seven jumps from the nearest conq factory - but highsec a mere 9 jumps from the closest conq station to highsec.

It has 30% time as well right now. *Snip* Removed reply to an edited out part of the quoted post. ISD Ezwal. And 5% for 60b would be a really bad deal. I'd call it pointless.

They've said the 30% mineral off is a bug (amarr stations right now have 30% time off and are supposed to retain that bonus in crius). The 5% is direct from the devblog, and it's the highest ME off you can get from 0.0 (each manufacturing slot upgrade becomes a 1% me off upgrade, and an amarr can fit the most at 5).

T2 has been cheap since like 2007. I remember 80mil isk for a covert ops cloak 2. 15mil for 1 T2 large gun. Mods are so cheap now its laughable. Yeah freighter ops aren't a fun thing to do everyday. That's why you would change things so more can be done locally negating the need of freighter ops or at least limiting the need for them.


Hahahahaha talk about barrier for entry. You need 1500 man capable fleets as we stand to own sov in Nullsec because if you don't and CFC or N3/PL affix there gaze at you you are done. Its as simple as that. So the barrier of entry of a 100 dudes or so to move a freighter isn't bad. Especially since ill repeat you would change as much as possible to make doing things locally as in "not bringing everything in via empire" limiting the need for freighter ops.


This concept scales across any size so uh yea.

I can understand where you are coming from on all your points Manny, I guess I just don't think that is fun. It really just sounds like boring work to me. I might agree with things like having constellation wide solv with constellation wide cyno jamers, but essentially making everything prohibitively more expensive or more of a pain to move just sounds like bad game design to me.

BTW when I started in 2009 a T2 ship was an extremely expensive investment that I would have never spent the money on, even if I had the proper skills to fly it. All your proposals are fine in the world view where you can freely replace what ever you want, but for those who do not have mountainous isk reserves, t2 cruisers were as far away a pipe dream as owning a capital. Even at current prices, my Rhea is worth more isk than I went through my first three years in the game combined (2009, 2010 and 2011).

Furthermore, if these kind of changes went into effect, what reason is there to bother living in 0.0 at all other than to have your name on the map? You make more isk in WH, and in terms of ISK per Effort you would be better off in Low Sec or High Sec. Your changes basically just sound like you want all of New Eden to be WH space.

Jump bridges and jump drives provide enough force projection that large entities can move entire fleets across half of eve for a defense fleet. If there is a POS times at 0800 eve in the deklein and a post timer at 1000 eve in period basis, its possible for the entire coalition to be at both timers. If someone deploys to the other side of eve, you can't start a second front and try to take their home region because they are able cover timers in different regions.

Look at current map.
There is nothing more than CFC and NCPL. *

* Provi is left to farm some kills, the same reason for Brave sov.

Power projection, and the ability to relocate on the other side of the map all your forces < 1h makes the eve nullsec one big nonsense.

One thing that people don't seem to understand is this (cold war coalitions) is a natural progression and given enough time would probably self-regulate. Now, I'm not suggesting that it should be given enough time to self-regulate, just that it probably would. Stability provides profitability. Warfare costs... a lot!

The problem with most of the "lets fix sov nullsec" ideas is when you boil it down it hurts the little guy just as much as the big coalitions and in most cases the big coalitions could mitigate whatever the changes are but the little guys couldn't.

There's also the issue of screwing those who are "winning" just because people are complaining about it. How would you like it if you were winning at a computer game and just because others didn't like it the game provider changed the game so you weren't. Not because you'd actually done anything wrong, just because there wasn't currently anyone to challenge you and a few people whined about it.

Well, in this situation there is someone to challenge. In an all out war between N3/PL and CFC the outcome is far from predetermined. But... they don't seem to want all out war, presumably because it would threaten the empires that they've built. Well, not until one side thinks they can pretty much guarantee squashing the other, perhaps.

Here's a question for you: If everyone who's sick of sov nullsec joined Provi or HERO, would it be enough bodies to threaten CFC or N3/PL? What about if this happened and Provi and HERO joined together?

Now, I'm not saying change isn't needed because I think it is but only if it's fair and doesn't unduly penalise those that have built up empires because they don't deserve to have their efforts squashed just because some people complain on the forums.

Yes, and that is a problem. Whilst one can argue (and I have) that this is a natural progression and that if you want to play in the big leagues you have to either grow into it or join one of the teams already in it, I can agree that it would be better if there was room for the smaller players.

So, there are a number of potential avenues to consider, some of which are:

1) Expand Sov Space - This is my favorite. If there was new space with significantly larger distances between stars that spread out from the outer boundaries of current Sov space it might alleviate the issue. The closer you are to Empire the easier it is to travel. The further out you go the less impact your jump drive has. Then shift nearly all the good moons further out making that the desirable space. It would massively increase the time for a fleet to get from one side of the map to the other. It would also mean that a lot of the space closer to Empire would be freed up as the current 2 massive coalitions took the more profitable space further out meaning that there would (hopefully) be space for smaller entities to take due to the distance issues making the big coalitions let go of the less profitable space. It would also mean that the better space you have the more pain in the backside it is to get to highsec and back. This is all off the top of my head so there are probably holes in it.

2) Reduce current sov holding through mechanics changes - This is rather intrusive and would likely garner complaint from the two main power blocs. Lots of potentials for this have been suggested on this forum and most have been soundly shot down.

3) Remove or massively reduce jump capability to enlarge the EVE galaxy by increasing travel times by a large factor - I'm pretty sure this isn't going to happen as it has WAY to many people against it, understandably.

It sure is a thorny subject though.