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Speed and Agility on the Macroscopic Scale
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Klatu Satori
Shadows of the Black
#1 - 2014-06-14 08:24:55 UTC
Some approximate velocities, on the macroscopic scale:

Interceptor: 88 LY/hr
Heavy Assault Ship: 56 LY/hr
Battleship: 34 LY/hr
Carrier: 740 LY/hr
Supercarrier/dreadnought/ jump freighter: 570 LY/hr
Titan/Black Ops: 400 LY/hr

And “agility” on the macroscopic scale in null sec space; the average number of stars a ship can travel to from any given solar system.

Sub-capitals: 2.56
Carrier: 424
Supercarrier/dreadnought/ jump freighter: 275
Titan/Black Ops: 134

Is this balanced?

Control-based Sovereignty System
Yang Aurilen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-06-14 08:33:51 UTC
Breaking news ships with Jump drives travel faster! Stop the press people!!!!

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Adrie Atticus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-06-14 08:43:43 UTC
You're missing vital info:
What skills were used?
Capacitor aides and the number of them? (Logi, cap boosters etc)
How many beers it took to come up with this?
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#4 - 2014-06-14 08:49:46 UTC
The current state of power projection is utterly ridiculous.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-06-14 09:35:15 UTC
Zappity wrote:
The current state of power projection is utterly ridiculous.

Nothing is going to satisfy you.
You could double fuel costs and halve jump distances and it wouldn't matter one whit to us, but it would sure make things even more difficult for smaller groups that don't have the extremely organized and coordinated logistics backbone that we do.

Nerfing power projection is not going to break up the large coalitions. If anything it'll solidify their positions.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#6 - 2014-06-14 09:40:40 UTC
Balanced?

Is that like the same as

Fair?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Klatu Satori
Shadows of the Black
#7 - 2014-06-14 11:39:14 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zappity wrote:
The current state of power projection is utterly ridiculous.

Nothing is going to satisfy you.
You could double fuel costs and halve jump distances and it wouldn't matter one whit to us, but it would sure make things even more difficult for smaller groups that don't have the extremely organized and coordinated logistics backbone that we do.

Nerfing power projection is not going to break up the large coalitions. If anything it'll solidify their positions.


This is off topic.

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Balanced?

Is that like the same as

Fair?


No, it isn't.

Control-based Sovereignty System
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#8 - 2014-06-14 15:50:14 UTC
Klatu Satori wrote:
Is this balanced?
Sure. Why wouldn't it be?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#9 - 2014-06-14 15:51:11 UTC
Klatu Satori wrote:

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Balanced?

Is that like the same as

Fair?


No, it isn't.


So what's the difference?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Klatu Satori
Shadows of the Black
#10 - 2014-06-14 16:12:30 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Klatu Satori wrote:

Ramona McCandless wrote:
Balanced?

Is that like the same as

Fair?


No, it isn't.


So what's the difference?


When I say "balance" I mean "game balance". Every ship, module, profession, etc has pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses. Take the numbers I gave for subcaps above, for example. Interceptors are much faster than battleships, but have much lower EHP and DPS. HAS are somewhere in the middle. Game balance is important in ensuring that a wide variety of units, methods, techniques, and styles are used. It keeps the game fresh and enables players to be inventive. To take it to an extreme, if CCP buffed rookie ships, giving them the ability to tank 100,000DPS without sweating, would that be a balanced game mechanic/feature? Of course not. Would it be fair? Sure. Because everyone can then ignore other ships and use rookie ships - no one is at an advantage or disadvantage.

Control-based Sovereignty System
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#11 - 2014-06-14 16:15:46 UTC
Klatu Satori wrote:

When I say "balance" I mean "game balance". Every ship, module, profession, etc has pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses. Take the numbers I gave for subcaps above, for example. Interceptors are much faster than battleships, but have much lower EHP and DPS. HAS are somewhere in the middle. Game balance is important in ensuring that a wide variety of units, methods, techniques, and styles are used. It keeps the game fresh and enables players to be inventive. To take it to an extreme, if CCP buffed rookie ships, giving them the ability to tank 100,000DPS without sweating, would that be a balanced game mechanic/feature? Of course not. Would it be fair? Sure. Because everyone can then ignore other ships and use rookie ships - no one is at an advantage or disadvantage.


Oh that boring rubbish

Yes, they are balanced

No, I dont agree with game balance

But then, I dont agree with taking or making stats-perfect anything in an rpg

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Marc Durant
#12 - 2014-06-14 16:16:23 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zappity wrote:
The current state of power projection is utterly ridiculous.

Nothing is going to satisfy you.
You could double fuel costs and halve jump distances and it wouldn't matter one whit to us, but it would sure make things even more difficult for smaller groups that don't have the extremely organized and coordinated logistics backbone that we do.

Nerfing power projection is not going to break up the large coalitions. If anything it'll solidify their positions.



Well in that case you won't mind if jump bridges, bridging in general and jumping itself gets nerfed a fair bit then.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#13 - 2014-06-14 16:17:52 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Zappity wrote:
The current state of power projection is utterly ridiculous.

Nothing is going to satisfy you.
You could double fuel costs and halve jump distances and it wouldn't matter one whit to us, but it would sure make things even more difficult for smaller groups that don't have the extremely organized and coordinated logistics backbone that we do.

Nerfing power projection is not going to break up the large coalitions. If anything it'll solidify their positions.



Well in that case you won't mind if jump bridges, bridging in general and jumping itself gets nerfed a fair bit then.


They wont

It effects them less and smaller groups more

Dinsdale's cries of anguish would be so loud, you could hear them in game

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Marc Durant
#14 - 2014-06-14 16:18:54 UTC
If you repeat it often enough you might actually start to believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#15 - 2014-06-14 16:21:02 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:
If you repeat it often enough you might actually start to believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

Please explain how it doesnt hurt a five man industrial corp that relies on their Jumpfrieghter and bridged Blockade Runners more than it hurts a 25,000 Super Alliance.

Go on.

Ill wait right here

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Othran
Route One
#16 - 2014-06-14 16:25:51 UTC
Klatu Satori wrote:
Some approximate velocities, on the macroscopic scale:

Interceptor: 88 LY/hr
Heavy Assault Ship: 56 LY/hr



I stopped there.

Anyone who thinks that HACs travel at 2/3 the speed of inties is clearly either :

a) trolling (my bet);

b) utterly clueless.
Marc Durant
#17 - 2014-06-14 16:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Durant
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Marc Durant wrote:
If you repeat it often enough you might actually start to believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

Please explain how it doesnt hurt a five man industrial corp that relies on their Jumpfrieghter and bridged Blockade Runners more than it hurts a 25,000 Super Alliance.

Go on.

Ill wait right here



Simple, that 25k super alliance will get bored as hell if they're not jumped around straight into the fights and suddenly the fights become less "fun" (ie, stuff suddenly takes effort for the main F1 clowns), which in turn means said coalition starts losing its power (projection). Also because there's no way to actually cover that big coalition's space quickly enough for the zerg to do its job securing the area and thus there's no point in that coalition in the first place.

But if you keep saying that it's not a problem for the blue donut then by all means have the CSM sock puppets push for bridging/jumping nerfs.

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#18 - 2014-06-14 16:32:17 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Marc Durant wrote:
If you repeat it often enough you might actually start to believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

Please explain how it doesnt hurt a five man industrial corp that relies on their Jumpfrieghter and bridged Blockade Runners more than it hurts a 25,000 Super Alliance.

Go on.

Ill wait right here



Simple, that 25k super alliance will get bored as hell if they're not jumped around straight into the fights and suddenly the fights become less "fun" (ie, stuff suddenly takes effort for the main F1 clowns), which in turn means said coalition starts losing its power (projection). Also because there's no way to actually cover that big coalition's space quickly enough for the zerg to do its job securing the area and thus there's no point in that coalition in the first place.

But if you keep saying that it's not a problem for the blue donut then by all means have the CSM sock puppets push for bridging/jumping nerfs.


Cool, not what I asked, but thanks for your input anyway.

Ill be sure to log it under "Of no interest"

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Marc Durant
#19 - 2014-06-14 16:33:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Marc Durant
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Marc Durant wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Marc Durant wrote:
If you repeat it often enough you might actually start to believe it, but it doesn't make it true.

Please explain how it doesnt hurt a five man industrial corp that relies on their Jumpfrieghter and bridged Blockade Runners more than it hurts a 25,000 Super Alliance.

Go on.

Ill wait right here



Simple, that 25k super alliance will get bored as hell if they're not jumped around straight into the fights and suddenly the fights become less "fun" (ie, stuff suddenly takes effort for the main F1 clowns), which in turn means said coalition starts losing its power (projection). Also because there's no way to actually cover that big coalition's space quickly enough for the zerg to do its job securing the area and thus there's no point in that coalition in the first place.

But if you keep saying that it's not a problem for the blue donut then by all means have the CSM sock puppets push for bridging/jumping nerfs.


Cool, not what I asked, but thanks for your input anyway.

Ill be sure to log it under "Of no interest"


I can understand you didn't ask for logic, facts and reason. Those are just so annoying when you're making **** up.


- edit for the dumbs -

Making big coalitions less powerful and useful = direct "buff" to small groups

Yes, yes I am. Thanks for noticing.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#20 - 2014-06-14 16:34:58 UTC
Marc Durant wrote:


I can understand you didn't ask for logic, facts and reason. Those are just so annoying when you're making **** up.


Dude, you actually ignored my entire question and typed something irrelevant!

So, yeah, I DID ask for those things, and you refused to comply.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
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