Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I think it's high time that the kinetic only bonus for caldari ships was addressed. It's a trivial matter to fit against it. Instead of trying to specifically omni tank you can try this on either a shield or an armour ship and see how it works.

People typically fit for EM, kinetic and explosive and neglect thermal. For a caracal I like to have 1x invul,1x em ward, 1x thermal and 2x extender rigs. Thermal is still the hole but since most weapons have their damage spread over 2 damage types normally either EM or thermal anyway you're pretty safe. This particular set up has equal kinetic/thermal resists on the basis that I'm kiting and outside of optimal for hybrids.

On an armour vexor there's 68/58/58/58 and thats with room to move thanks to reactive hardener. Shooting kinetic at this vexor because its your damage preference will push total resists up to nearly 80% on kinetic meaning your already bad dps gets worse.

ROF is the current gimmick for DPS with the devs trying to make us googoo eyed over how it translates into slightly higher dps than raw volley but as the numbers show again and again especially for caracal a gross output of 20k in 50s and then 35s reload is too little to justify it. With the orthrus getting literally double the damage I really wonder why they made it that way and not just super ROF with like 50% higher ROF.

For comparison to a caracal as above
Caracal: 215/410/481/20160
Thorax w/ 250mm railguns and using plutonium: 405/422/497/50500.

2.5x the raw damage of a RLML caracal.
120s per railgun magazine. 2.4x as much uptime as a caracal. 5s reload.
Caracal reloads after 50s and 20000 damage, after 85 seconds it has produced 20000 damage downstream at a rate of 235dps. After 135 seconds it has produced 40000 damage downstream. The Thorax by comparison has produced another 5000 damage for a total of 55500 damage in 135 seconds.

Now if they're both MWDing and in a kiting scenario the Caracal loses dps just from explosion velocity so his 20000 is even lower yet again. A shield thorax is faster and has more EHP. Not looking good for the caracal. I'm really not convinced the RLML should be flown on anything without a damage multiplier. ROF bonuses are just not good for this weapon system and it should really be front loaded by firing either multiple charges or dumping all of its damage instantly and letting the missile algorithym deal with whether you kill the target or not instead of dragging out this already anemic damage profile further, as if being limited to *maybe* shooting their highest resist wasn't bad enough. A caracal only begins to creep ahead in raw damage after 3 reloads in which you have been in battle for minimum 164 seconds. In 164s a thorax has pushed 70k damage downfield.

For comparison purposes I'm going to look at medium artillery for a second here.
Rupture with 4x 720s shooting EMP ges 52k damage over 148 second.
Stabber with same gets 42200 (although it has NO grid left for anything else).

The RLML is one of the lowest dps systems in EVE and also one with the lowest overall damage produced. You can't do anything to mitigate speed tankers at longpoint range and the ships that the module was designed around (predominantly caldari ships) are too slow to kite effectively and often have less EHP than comparable ships that use weapons with higher damages.

If the phoenix can have the curse of 5% kinetic/level removed, so can the rest. I fail to see how its game breaking.

Rise and co. will probably cite usage stats (in a vacuum) or some other nonsense to justify not changing it.

Lest we forget the phoenix costs like 4bil to fly once skillbooks are taken in to consideration not to mention the many months of training. Of course its usage was abysmally low - it was a bad dread and far far too pricey.

More than that, some consistency between caldari ships and against minmatar ships. Why does the caracal get ROF while the NOSprey gets damage? The cerb gets damage? The Corax gets damage? The hawk gets damage? The kestrel gets (universal)damage? Why these inconsistencies on hulls where it really really matters that it's done right?

My favourite part is how the original data for RLML was based on the idea that they would out-damage turrets for their clip and then have to reload - but I've just shown a number of turret based ships that even with their lowest dps guns disprove that. Not to mention bulk damage put downfield is still grossly in favour of the turrets. I'm not sure wtf Rise and Fozzie were smoking when they decided to settle on this design but it needs to be re-done because although the idea has merit they royally ****** up the execution.

Sorry I only ever trained quoting to level 1.

But by that comparison of missile launchers, let's have a look how much damage a large neutron blaster II can do with 80 void charges.. (hint: its a ton)

And since we are comparing bananas to pineapples now, let's agree that the nerf of 8 years of assault missile launchers was unwarranted, unwanted and maybe even not really thought through.

If CCP doesn't believe us, let's invite them to come to SiSi and make them fly heavy missile Drakes and assault launcher Caracals.

We will do our worst to great them and then they may come back here and tell us, missiles are fine.

Truth or Dare, what will it be?

I honestly dont see anything wrong with rapid light missiles. they already out DPS blasters and increasing the mag with a 35 sec reload is way too much of a buff. This change is game breaking and you are making the other weapons weaker. RML are fine the way they are and dont need to change. RLM are hitting harder then blasters and they have more range, no tracking problems, can pick damage type. Dont break the game and leave things how they are.

Any updates on getting the ammo switching back to 10 seconds instead of reloading and ammo swapping at 30?


It's a huge huge drawback to not be able to switch damage groups on the fly. To the point where people are using regular light missile launchers on cruisers because RLML's are just so crappy.

Honestly - This is the reasoning Rise and Fozzie used to release less than effective Rapid Launchers.
Out of hand comments from pilots who don't use missiles saying they are OP.

Unfortunately, Devs listened and missiles got nerfed - Again.




RLML do actually work - You need 5 rlml Caracals vs 1 Ceptor.
Problem is, if the Ceptor has friends the Caracals will die before the 1st Ceptor does.

They're working as intended? Like ****?

I won't stop posting here until they recognise that I'm unhappy. I can tell you that they've already admitted the change produced far less enthusiasm from the people actually using these weapons than they expected.

RLMLs don't:

fire fast enough
have enough rounds
reload fast enough
do enough raw damage on enough hulls
have low cost fittings like they used to

To fix all of these problems would yes obviously be totally game breaking.

So fix one of them. Modules have the ability to fire more than 1 round at a time so let RLML be it. The only weapon with more 'burst' could be bombs. Which are coincidentally also a missile skill.

240/368/433/24180 for both

Are you really comparing railguns to rlml? Good luck applying that uber dps of railgun to a frig orbitting you at 500.

...and just for the record:

PRE-RLML-change SciFi with RLML:

Sustained dps: 234
Re-loaded excluded dps: 239

So for ships with plain damage bonus, the module isn't nerfed at all.

RLML's can apply their damage to variety of ship sizes. The price you pay for this flexibilty is the lowish dps. You want a system that is both paper, scissors and rock. That's not going to happen.

I completely agree with the necessity of faster ammo type swap. But no further buff is necessary for RLML's.