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Star Citizen v EVE

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Author
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1481 - 2014-05-30 22:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
digitalwanderer wrote:
Aspalis wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:

All that was said was that some content was finished for months before being released into the usual expansion package, either the summer or winter one, but that doesn't qualify as why the change after 11 years on the market.


Newsflash: EVE Online is a MMO. MMOs change over time.

If you didn't know this, you must be really new around here.

digitalwanderer wrote:

Do you know how many times the same ships have been rebalanced in 11 years?.....I don't have enough fingers in both hands to count them all, so seriously stop with the ass licking, it's embarrassing.


Does it matter how many times the same ships get a work over? No, it doesn't. Do I care? No. Should you care? No.

Ass licking, eh? Well now, that's just the kettle calling the pot black isn't it?



I'm confused....So am i a newbie with 11 years in the game or am an ass licker. and tell that to people that have heavily trained into one race, which as I remember is what CCP wanted people to specialize for a long time, when it's hard when they're constantly rebalancing things over and over over the years...It doesn't help retain customers you know?



Quote:

Ah, so you are actually upset that CCP is not putting someone like you on a pedestal, worshiping you, giving you a special helmet and continuously assure you that you are indeed a special snowflake?


Far from it, I want skills that make looking like training for a titan look like a walk in the park, but be worth that kind of dedication.....The list of what's left is quite small these days as if I push every ship related skill to the maximum of lvl 5, there's about 280 skills in total and since I did all the long skills already I can get there in 2 years, which sounds like a lot but I've been here for 11 years already, so it isn't that much in that perspective.




Quote:

Ah, and you think Chris Roberts can deliver on any of his grand visions? Wait.. he has yet to deliver on anything because so far everything has been delayed.


Given how patient I've been with CCP FOR YEARS, getting on the guys back for delays of weeks and months is hardly anything to fuss over about too much if he's building something that looks that good.....I'll give you 2 examples from the contest being run to have user created ships in the game the 2 finalists:


https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/115162/team-shard-collective-ax114-boomslang-mk3

Or:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/112096/tngs-team-four-horsemen-redeemer-class-gunship


These are in game renders using the Cry engine 3.5 and yes the interiors are fully functional in both cases and one of them will be in the game....Now call me stupid but I haven't seen anything looking this good in eve even if they were created by the staff directly, never mind outside people doing the work and CIG makes the call who wins it.



Here is my problem with this.. all you seem to spout is 'ooo its pretty!' and 'ooo if I go fast I will pass out!' You do realize, that looks don't mean squat if the game functions like crap, the mechanics make no sense, or are a pita to do right? You comparing SC to eve and stating that 'SC is beautiful! I have no idea if she is brilliant or can eve walk correctly, but she is going to give that ugly pos eve a run for its money man!' is like saying 'ooo miss dumb as a brick USA is so pretty! she gives that old bag Madlin Albright* a run for her money man!"

Why don't you talk about some of the mechanics or issues they are having. Because if you ask me, if they can't even get the functionality for there network to talk to the client so everything is in order at this phase of the game, there is a huge problem.

*Not making fun of Ms. Albrights looks, she is was older however, but a bad ass woman if you have heard her speak.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1482 - 2014-05-30 22:15:15 UTC
I think CR was not smart when he decided to go form making Dogfight a single player at first then multiplayer, to multiplayer at first. I don't think he was even remotely ready for that, and tbh, it shows both that he may have his head in the clouds as to what he can actually accomplish in a reasonable time, and what is so far out of his league that he will just be bogged down with crap.

I always said, he should stop with this stupid stretch goals, and trying to cram more and more into the itial launch, and focus on the core of his game, a few ships, getting everything set and yes even buggy for alpha, then adding more it as things get worked out and played.

While its great that he went forma single ship for dog fighting to four... its an alpha. Its foolish to keep changing the plans once you have a time line in place.

As digital keeps doing, if I compare SC's progress to say Valkryies, Both had a reworking around the same time, as SC decided to not put out whatever crappy version of dog fight they had, and Valk had to scrap the play idea thye had as it was not fun.

SC then announced a clearly unattainable alpha date (march or april they said there would be an alpha [no digital I could care less what you ment when you typed that DFM was being released during pax.. released is released])

where as Valk is taking its time to perfect it and has tons of little prealpha events to test and get feed back on there game now.

SC keeps adding or modifying things...

Valk seems to be not doing that much, but then again, Valk devs are not talking as much as CR is.

CR really needs to just stop. Just stop talking, and focus on his game. Announce the damn launch of dogfight when they are actually set to do alpha, not when they THINK they can do alpha, and launch a damn alpha, not a 100% ready right off the self game.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#1483 - 2014-05-30 22:16:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Hesod Adee
digitalwanderer wrote:
Quote:

Ah, and you think Chris Roberts can deliver on any of his grand visions? Wait.. he has yet to deliver on anything because so far everything has been delayed.


Given how patient I've been with CCP FOR YEARS, getting on the guys back for delays of weeks and months is hardly anything to fuss over about too much if he's building something that looks that good.....I'll give you 2 examples from the contest being run to have user created ships in the game the 2 finalists:

Your 'proof' that Chris Roberts can deliver is something that wasn't even produced by his company.

Where is your proof that the people he is paying are able to produce working netcode ?
Because if there is no working netcode, all of SCs other features become impossible.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1484 - 2014-05-30 22:30:42 UTC
Commissar Kate wrote:
All I see is SC is better than Eve from the SC supporters

Ok now answer me this. What would make EvE better in your guys view, as in features/gameplay?



Advancing the storyline on Jove to the point that Oveur ( one of the original developers of EVE) stated we could become jove....That was 10 years ago that he stated that and nothing has been done since....Kinda running late.


Advance the research in the wormhole that closed and try to re open it and see if there's anything that resembles a human species on the other side and if they'd be friendly or hostile to their long lost relatives living in the eve cluster....Nothing has been done there either.


Release the other Tech 3 ships that were stated in a previous post of mine, right up to battleship class and even if the skills to train them would be insane, I wouldn't mind, and we could even release tech 3 sub capital weapons while were at it too, with insane training skills to match.


No I won't go into it, but there was supposed to be walking in stations and all we got is walking into a pilots quarters that didn't add anything to the gameplay.


Would be nice if by now, tech 2 capital weapons existed since dreads and titans have been out for 9 years, so it would be about damn time they were released...In fact also release other T2 capital class modules while we're at it and insane skills to use those of course.


There's plenty more, but those are a few suggestions.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1485 - 2014-05-30 22:36:10 UTC
DaReaper wrote:



Here is my problem with this.. all you seem to spout is 'ooo its pretty!' and 'ooo if I go fast I will pass out!' You do realize, that looks don't mean squat if the game functions like crap, the mechanics make no sense, or are a pita to do right? You comparing SC to eve and stating that 'SC is beautiful! I have no idea if she is brilliant or can eve walk correctly, but she is going to give that ugly pos eve a run for its money man!' is like saying 'ooo miss dumb as a brick USA is so pretty! she gives that old bag Madlin Albright* a run for her money man!"

Why don't you talk about some of the mechanics or issues they are having. Because if you ask me, if they can't even get the functionality for there network to talk to the client so everything is in order at this phase of the game, there is a huge problem.

*Not making fun of Ms. Albrights looks, she is was older however, but a bad ass woman if you have heard her speak.



He was responsible for freelancer and starlancer back in the day, which were pain in the asses to run since the hardware needed was the very best for it's day, but does give the guy some experience when it comes to space sims.


When CCP developed EVE, they had no experience in making it period, and I still have nightmares about how the first year of the game was horrible with the severe lag and the server crashing 3 times a day, so you were talking about network problems?


P
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#1486 - 2014-05-30 23:50:21 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
He was responsible for freelancer and starlancer back in the day,


You might want to read up on Freelancers development.

Started in 1997 with lots of big promises.
Quote:
In June 2000, Microsoft started talks to buy Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule

Then Microsoft took over and Robert's left Digital Anvil and was only kept on as a creative consultant. It took 3 more years to finish. Even after dropping a lot of the promises.

Please tell me how bringing up Freelancer is meant to make Roberts look good.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1487 - 2014-05-31 00:56:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Grimpak
digitalwanderer wrote:
Grimpak wrote:

WHY!?!?!?!?!?!!!



If the gameplay follows the colossal amount of work seen in those pictures, which aren't even being designed by CIG staff at all( they're only judges), I think CCP is in for a huge wake up call very soon.

quite wrong. I was screaming in pain on the reason why you posted in a perfectly okay discussion


Desivo Delta Visseroff wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Grimpak wrote:

WHY!?!?!?!?!?!!!



If the gameplay follows the colossal amount of work seen in those pictures, which aren't even being designed by CIG staff at all( they're only judges), I think CCP is in for a huge wake up call very soon.


I think Grimpak meant "The thread just became civil, technical and interesting again.. WHY!?!?!?!?!?!!! did you ruin it? and can we get back to the technical civility?"

Unless I'm wrong Grimpak, then my bad.


This.

This, this, this

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Graygor
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1488 - 2014-05-31 01:01:24 UTC
Grimpak wrote:


This.

This, this, this


Civility? In my OOPE? Shocked

What the hell is going wrong with the world.

"I think you should buy a new Mayan calendar. Mine has muscle cars on it." - Kenneth O'Hara

"I dont think that can happen, you can see Gray has his invuln field on in his portrait." - Commissar "Cake" Kate

Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1489 - 2014-05-31 01:04:53 UTC
Graygor wrote:
Grimpak wrote:


This.

This, this, this


Civility? In my OOPE? Shocked

What the hell is going wrong with the world.

I dunno. Stopped trying to even thinking on understanding why.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1490 - 2014-05-31 01:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Hesod Adee wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
He was responsible for freelancer and starlancer back in the day,


You might want to read up on Freelancers development.

Started in 1997 with lots of big promises.
Quote:
In June 2000, Microsoft started talks to buy Digital Anvil. Roberts admitted that his team required large sums of money, which only a huge company could provide, to continue developing Freelancer with its "wildly ambitious" features and unpredictable schedule

Then Microsoft took over and Robert's left Digital Anvil and was only kept on as a creative consultant. It took 3 more years to finish. Even after dropping a lot of the promises.

Please tell me how bringing up Freelancer is meant to make Roberts look good.



Because at least now, he's got his game fully financed without needing any publishers getting in the way and not allowing features to get fully developed, or needing the game to be released by a given date.


Does this mean the game will be released on time?....hell no, but judging by the quality of work done so far and even lf it requires some stiff hardware to run it smoothly, but you can bet that it raises the bar big time and that publishers want to see it fail badly, because it means it cost them more money to match that kind of quality, not to mention seeing kickstarter financed projects fail.......they want to keep control of this industry in terms of how long should the game take to make, how much money is needed, making it run on every possible platform and what features( graphics or otherwise) should be supported and just enough polish to beat out what is released at that time.


Star citizen bypasses all that crap and aims to be the best that is technically possible, even though they have people on the forums already wanting a console version for the Xbox 1 and PS4, and Chris said no ******* way is it happening as he doesn't need money from either Sony or Microsoft, or their restrictive license agreements( ask CCP on dust 514 and why there isn't a PC version), or debating just how powerful their PC's need to be to run this game anyhow, wanting to water it down already...

Evil
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1491 - 2014-05-31 03:43:56 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Seems all the bugs in yesterday's list have been resolved, but they're play testing the latest build over the weekend, and going for a go/ no go vote next week if QA hasn't found anything else.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13904-Arena-Commander-V8-Daily-Bug-Update-May-30-2014
Winterblink
#1492 - 2014-05-31 04:04:55 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Seems all the bugs in yesterday's list have been resolved, but they're play testing the latest build over the weekend, and going for a go/ no go vote next week if QA hasn't found anything else.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13904-Arena-Commander-V8-Daily-Bug-Update-May-30-2014

It's more to say that THEY THINK they've got the bugs resolved. Since one of the show stoppers seemed to be a major issue with netcode, I'm not surprised they are taking an extra couple of days to retest everything. It's a smart move.

There's a "sizzle reel" in that link too, and like most sizzle reels it's complete garbage.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1493 - 2014-05-31 04:14:33 UTC
Was hoping that more space oriented infinite monkeys model go thru instead we have to pick in between two helicopters but hell high quality non the less.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#1494 - 2014-05-31 04:48:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Hesod Adee
digitalwanderer wrote:
Because at least now, he's got his game fully financed without needing any publishers getting in the way and not allowing features to get fully developed, or needing the game to be released by a given date.


What I got from the bit I quoted was that he went way overbudget with what budget he had before Microsoft stepped in with more money.

So when you say that Star Citizen is 'fully funded', are you saying that Chris Roberts thinks he has enough money for the features he has promised (just like Freelancer), or do you have some other source who ran the numbers themselves ?

Quote:
Does this mean the game will be released on time?....hell no, but judging by the quality of work done so far


Which work ?
Please point to bits that are produced by CIG, not competition entries. Preferably bits that show off gameplay, not graphics.
Though if you do point to graphics, point out how it does something new. Not just throwing more manpower at existing graphics methods.

Quote:
and even lf it requires some stiff hardware to run it smoothly, but you can bet that it raises the bar big time

If the game needs hardware that most of the target audience doesn't own on release, that's still a failure on the developers part because they are limiting their sales.

Quote:
Star citizen bypasses all that crap and aims to be the best that is technically possible,

Yes, that's what they are aiming for. But where is the evidence that Chris Roberts can deliver ?
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#1495 - 2014-05-31 04:56:41 UTC
digitalwanderer wrote:
Seems all the bugs in yesterday's list have been resolved, but they're play testing the latest build over the weekend, and going for a go/ no go vote next week if QA hasn't found anything else.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13904-Arena-Commander-V8-Daily-Bug-Update-May-30-2014


Quote:
To put that to rest, Zane has captured images of all three ships in action! These are unaltered screenshots, taken within the game itself (from a camera in back of the character head.)


I only see two screenshots. In each screenshot I see a cockpit, each from a different ship.
Where is the third ship ?


As for the sizzle trailer, the graphics there are unimpressive.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#1496 - 2014-05-31 05:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mina Sebiestar
third cockpit is hornet one seen already and boring as well.(also i think it is one where dude is looking at us)

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#1497 - 2014-05-31 05:24:25 UTC
Winterblink wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Seems all the bugs in yesterday's list have been resolved, but they're play testing the latest build over the weekend, and going for a go/ no go vote next week if QA hasn't found anything else.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13904-Arena-Commander-V8-Daily-Bug-Update-May-30-2014

It's more to say that THEY THINK they've got the bugs resolved. Since one of the show stoppers seemed to be a major issue with netcode, I'm not surprised they are taking an extra couple of days to retest everything. It's a smart move.

There's a "sizzle reel" in that link too, and like most sizzle reels it's complete garbage.



Hell the Eve VR demo trailer had a better feel then that video

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1498 - 2014-05-31 15:39:19 UTC  |  Edited by: digitalwanderer
Hesod Adee wrote:


What I got from the bit I quoted was that he went way overbudget with what budget he had before Microsoft stepped in with more money.



Well, initially he wanted just 2 million from the kickstarter fund and another 20 million would be provided by private investors if he managed to hit that mark, which as we all know was blown away by the near 45 million amassed so far, to the point that the private investors are no longer needed, and the game continues to gather more money on a daily basis( between 20 000$ to 70 000$ every day), so the total should be much higher by the time the game is anywhere near being complete.


Quote:

Which work ?
Please point to bits that are produced by CIG, not competition entries. Preferably bits that show off gameplay, not graphics.
Though if you do point to graphics, point out how it does something new. Not just throwing more manpower at existing graphics methods.



The use of PBR to make everything look much more realistic, which is a brand new feature from the Cry engine 3.5 game engine and never used in any other game previously, and yes the ships developed by the staff look equally awesome, like this one:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/y763j5ppisnnfr/channel_item_full/IDRISdownfrontquarter_copy.jpg


How the hell does this not look awesome outside and even more so with a full working interior and the ability to board the ship to take control of it

Quote:

If the game needs hardware that most of the target audience doesn't own on release, that's still a failure on the developers part because they are limiting their sales.



They don't care, the aim is to create the ultimate PC game experience, just like when the original Crysis game was released in 2007 and made even the highest end pc setups it's personal *****, being forced to run the game at low settings compared to every other game out at the time, but still sold in droves as people upgraded to try and run it as best as they could, and the game was used by hardware review sites to gauge new video card performance for a few years after it's release.


Sometimes, you just have to gamble rather than always play it safe, and Crytek made a name for itself since then....

Quote:

Yes, that's what they are aiming for. But where is the evidence that Chris Roberts can deliver ?


You wait and see if they can.....It's called a leap of faith and i'm sensing you have none left.
digitalwanderer
DW inc
#1499 - 2014-05-31 15:48:41 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
digitalwanderer wrote:
Seems all the bugs in yesterday's list have been resolved, but they're play testing the latest build over the weekend, and going for a go/ no go vote next week if QA hasn't found anything else.


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13904-Arena-Commander-V8-Daily-Bug-Update-May-30-2014


Quote:
To put that to rest, Zane has captured images of all three ships in action! These are unaltered screenshots, taken within the game itself (from a camera in back of the character head.)


I only see two screenshots. In each screenshot I see a cockpit, each from a different ship.
Where is the third ship ?


As for the sizzle trailer, the graphics there are unimpressive.



It's only showing NPC's fighting eachother, so you're right it's not much to go on.


What i'm really looking forward to isn't even this initial release, but DFM part 2 and part 3, which the second part involves multi crew ships fighting like the constellation( 4 crew) and my retaliator heavy bomber that has a crew of 8 onboard...Should be a riot.


The third part involves ship docking so imagine the image I posted on the last post, it being a hostile ship and the objective is to take control of it, which first involves taking down propulsion, shields and it's defenses, then you take a larger ship that can have boarding parties and has a docking collar, and dump them in said hostile ship and they fight within that large ship, and they can be NPC's or real people you know, so you end up with first person shooter style fighs inside the ship and a space battle outside the ship too at the same time.
Winterblink
#1500 - 2014-05-31 16:24:30 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Was hoping that more space oriented infinite monkeys model go thru instead we have to pick in between two helicopters but hell high quality non the less.

Personally, I was really hoping for Tallon to go through, that ship looked really badass. If only they hadn't totally screwed the pooch on their presentation. You're right though they definitely have it down to "two helicopters". :)