Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Everyone competes on the same resources on the market. Not while clearing rocks. Rocks are an environment property. And you're doing PvE while clearing rocks. From your perspective, anything would become PvP when a game has an in-game economy. False.

Look at your signature. What does it intent to say? Can you see that? When it says PvP, it is talking about "player versus player engagements", which intents agression. Can you deny that? I was also talking in that scope, but you've started a unnecessary term war, pasting same thing over and over again.

When I said "isolated", I meant the same thing your signature tried to say. I isolated myself from any possible PvP engagements. I say that my reasoning is true, because nobody really attacked me whole that time. Please stop making PvP-PvE judgements, especially when you don't know what others are talking about. You clearly didn't understand my sentences (and your signature too).



I can't agree more! I also said there might be things to polish. Neverthless, an exploit shouldn't make a proposal simply "denied".

Agreed. You turn your PvE operation into PvP competition when you start selling stuff. Mining operation is no pvp by itself. It is pve. If one assumes "versus Player" part as rocks, then I start to wonder...

As long as that economy has limited orders and varying prices it is in fact true. And as stated above, miners do very much compete with each other for good rocks. Thats why some miners will hire gankers to attack other miners, or have an alt bumper when they are mining a good ore site. Because it makes them more money.

PI is also competition, u dont get the same amount of resources no matter where u put the extractors, u place them where u get the highest yield, and thats also what the other players after the same resources on the same planet will do. Did u not realise that when other players put their extractors in the same place as urs they are reducing ur yield over time? True theres little u can do about it, but its still competition, its still one player affecting another.

Yes my sig refers to combat PvP for the easy digest of noobs. but that has little to do with this discussion. It is widely regarded that any form of competition, including competition for resources, is PvP. Even grinding isk and inflation is PvP as players compete for buying power. For example, if u dont grind for a week, and everyone else in the game does, prices inflate but ur isk does not and u lose a fraction of ur buying power. U theoretically lose wealth by not grinding the average amount that other players do.

This game is all about competition, risk x effort = reward. It is very much a PvP game.

Ur definition of PvP is what is lacking.



please point out the point where i 'denied' it.
u say it needs some polish, and then derailed the thread because u dnt know what PvP is and/or dont understand that this is a risk/reward game. Where as im the guy that said:

- how the idea already exists but u have to put the work in to get it,
- how the idea can be polished (make rats tougher with active tanks) and,
- what not to do (add rewards to level 4's) so that u dnt break, as someone else put it, the risk reward paradigm.
- If u want to make something like incursions that u dnt have to compete over, as Incursions are another limited resource, then that would also be great, but if there is no competition between players then they should pay no more than level 4's besides what u would inherently get for focusing fire and working efficiently. At best maybe give all involved a 3mil mission reward and 5k LP's.

But this proposal, in its current form with no changes, should definitely be denied.

That's why I said "to some extend" in one of my previous posts. When you're solo, it becomes PvE. If you start to compete on the market, or start any competition on the field It becomes pvp. When another beam hits the same rock, It is no more against a rock, it becomes rock gathering competition against another player. We're on the same side on this.

No, this is directed at anyone who wishes to get higher end content in high-sec or just more rewards from level 4's. its a reminder of CCP's design philosophy and one im using to suggest this proposal in its current form is not going to work.

Though players putting in more effort and taking more risks than their peers to obtain higher rewards enables PvP.


yeah i take it personally when someone tells me im mistaken and then tries to state their opinion as fact. and this has dragged out because ur saying PvP can only mean combat between players despite:

- u urself saying everything becomes PvP when the markets involved. When is the market not involved?
- the material ur using as reference puts PvE content under PvP
- and other players are telling u PvP extends to more than just shooting each other.


And yet uve said so urself, as soon as the market comes into it any activity becomes PvP. and seeing as the market is intertwined with everything in EVE, and that players are always competing on multiple levels with eachother, then this is very much a PvP centric game. Nothing here demolishes or invalidates my claims. ur link in fact reinforces my claims by recognising that even mining in empire involves PvP.

A few other things with ur link.
1) evelopedia is mostly 'a stub' like the article u linked, written by players and is outdated. devs actually send ppl to the eve uni wiki for information. Where as:
Player versus player

As ive been saying from the start, players in eve are always competing. It is what i meant when i first used the term PvP in this thread, and it is always what i mean when i use the term PvP without specifying combat. Would it be easier for u if i said EVE is very much a competition based game? Why cant u broaden ur understanding of the term PvP?

2) U keep saying u dnt understand how mining is PvP, but even the source ur referring to recognises the PvP in mining and EVE uni wiki has an article on PI PVP. To reinforce my claims that even PI is PvP.

3) not sure what is meant to be discovered by subtracting the amount of activities that are mixes of PvP and PvE from activities that are PvE. the whole idea is simplistic and plain poor when the wiki is listing several types of missioning and exploration separately. It has no mention of the market or player vs player combat. How can such a half arsed way of measuring 'demolish' the things ive said?

Nope, I wasn't implying that. It was a generalized statement that any exploit shouldn't make a proposal simply denied and/or disappear ^_^

- There is competition on the market between buyers as much as sellers. so unless ur buying from an unlimited NPC order, its PvP.

- Just because no one turns up while ur mining, doesnt mean no one turns up after ur done or before u start. Someone at some point is taking away resources others could have had. So that makes it competition. True the competition maybe low in some places because of an abundance of resources and/or a lack of players but that doesnt take away the fact that it is still competitive. On top of that, when a group of players mine they mine to:

1- Acquire wealth,
2- Build equipment, to acquire wealth with.
3- Build equipment to attack all other players with.

So it either leads to combat PvP or at some point resources gathered are traded (buying or selling) or enable trading of other items between players. All of which is PvP and makes mining and spending wealth PvP by extension.

- Manufacturers compete for slots in a station or, if they use a POS, they compete for moons to put a POS next to. Come crius players will compete for installation prices and teams.

- Funny u should say that. Its often in jest, but the term 'forum PvP' is used.

i know what u mean to say by PvE. But u didnt understand what i meant by PvP when u said i was mistaken.
If someone was to acquire wealth and never spend it on the player market, only BPO's, LP stores and skill books, not even plexes. Never used a manufacturing or research slot and never mined nor killed a rat in an exploration site, only ran missions and never shot at another player, then they might have been truly isolated from other players. But they'd be in a T1 destroyer or faction frig fit with meta gear using only ammo they find in missions.