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[Kronos] Hyperspatial Accelerator Modules

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Nano Sito
#61 - 2014-05-21 18:27:28 UTC
Good... good.... A step in the right direction. My only (small) beef with these modules is that they should be available only to BS and BC, to compensate for the warp speed nerf in rubicon. An interceptor equipped with a set of these would be waaaaay to fast, imho.

Anyhow, I'm glad someone from CCP was reading the comments on the warp speed rigs thread.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#62 - 2014-05-21 18:32:07 UTC
Nano Sito wrote:
Good... good.... A step in the right direction. My only (small) beef with these modules is that they should be available only to BS and BC, to compensate for the warp speed nerf in rubicon. An interceptor equipped with a set of these would be waaaaay to fast, imho.

Anyhow, I'm glad someone from CCP was reading the comments on the warp speed rigs thread.


This is the most likely reason why they give a flat bonus, I think: Small ships still gain something, but larger ships gain far more.

Think about it: A BS would gain 0,5 AU/sec from a 25% increase, a T1 frigate 1,25 AU/sec from the same module already.

With a flat 0,3 bonus, the BS gains 15% warp speed, a T1 frigate gains only 6% from the same module. Considering you can fit up to three of them, this is already balanced.
M Key
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2014-05-21 18:33:33 UTC
Nano Sito wrote:
Good... good.... A step in the right direction. My only (small) beef with these modules is that they should be available only to BS and BC, to compensate for the warp speed nerf in rubicon. An interceptor equipped with a set of these would be waaaaay to fast, imho.

Anyhow, I'm glad someone from CCP was reading the comments on the warp speed rigs thread.


An interceptor is already on the edge of seeing no return for investing in more warp speed. I fail to see how .3 per low slot wasted is a good investment for them.

My Orca will likely wear one. I can see other haulers that aren't capacity limited use them. Gimmick battleships maybe. They are aimed squarely at the new Freighters, and thats where they will have the most value by far.
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2014-05-21 18:44:02 UTC
Nano Sito wrote:
Good... good.... A step in the right direction. My only (small) beef with these modules is that they should be available only to BS and BC, to compensate for the warp speed nerf in rubicon. An interceptor equipped with a set of these would be waaaaay to fast, imho.

Anyhow, I'm glad someone from CCP was reading the comments on the warp speed rigs thread.


How about giving freighter 300 grid and make the warpspeed modules require 125 grid? This way you could have stacking penalization % based modules without benefitting smaller ships.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2014-05-21 18:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
I was hoping a module like this would be added eventually. Well done!

However, I don't think frigates should easily be able to fit these mods as they already warp fast. Therefore, i think it would be better if you added some PG to the for balancing reasons (i.e. the greater the warp speed buff, the more PG required).

As am example, If the above was the case you could have these modules increase warp speed by 1, 2 and 3 AU/s

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#66 - 2014-05-21 18:59:33 UTC
If it's because of Avatar... why not set it to a % bonus which will give the same stats on Titans as the flat stats you're giving here.

Why aren't they stacking penalized?

These are really weird modules... I was excited when I read the title because I thought they would be great for travel fitting bs. After reading the post, I realize that the mods will probably be way too expensive and provide too small of a bonus to make it worth it.

Overall it seems to me like these modules are slapped together in a rush and not thought through properly.

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nahjustwarpin
SUPER DUPER SPACE TRUCKS
#67 - 2014-05-21 19:04:59 UTC  |  Edited by: nahjustwarpin
Rek Seven wrote:
I was hoping a module like that would be added eventually. Well done!

However, I don't think frigates should easily be able to fit these mods as they already warp fast. Therefore, i think it would be better if you added some PG to the for balancing reasons. For example, the greater the warp speed buff, the more PG required.

If the above was the case you could have these modules increase warp speed by 1, 2 and 3 AU/s


do you really think that giving freighters modules that would bump their warp speed from 1.37 to 4.37 wouldn't bee a bit too much? that's about the speed that destroyers have

also giving frigs a bonus of 0.2 -0.3 to au/s is not really much. I don't think that it will be popular choice for them
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2014-05-21 19:10:19 UTC
Sniper Smith wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
I was just wondering why the decision was made to break consistency by using a flat bonus + max item limit instead of the stacking penalized bonus we know from all other item types.

I suspect the changes to freighters influenced this.

But freighters have a lot warpspeed to begin with.. if you use reasonable % bonus, it comes out the same.. while leaving more options for faster ships :)

How is the slowest warp speed in the game "a lot to begin with"?

If you apply a percentage bonus to a small number and the same percentage bonus to a larger number, then the second bonus is larger.

So let's say you want to apply the same bonus as the 0.3 AU/s module to freighters using a percentage bonus.
Freighters have 1.37 AU/s warp speed, so 0.3 AU/s / 1.37 AU/s = ~22%.

Placing three of these on a freighter would be a 66% increase in warp speed (assuming no stacking penalty):
1.37 AU/s * 0.66 = 0.9 AU/s
So a freighter gains almost 1 AU/s from fitting three of these. This is of course as you'd expect considering we found this percentage by determining what would give us a 0.3 AU/s bonus per module on a freighter.

So fitting three of these brings a freighter up to 2.27 AU/s.

Place three of these on an interceptor, however...
8 AU/s * 0.66 = 5.28 AU/s.
An interceptor gains 1.76 AU/s from fitting a single one of these modules...
Three of them brings the ship up to 13.28 AU/s.
This is more than 2 T2 hyperspatial rigs will get you.

Suppose you implemented this with a stacking penalty (so that the rigs also stack against the mods).

A freighter with three of these is brought up to 2.24 AU/s. Fine...
An interceptor with three of these is brought up to 13.08 AU/s. Not terribly different from above...
Tacking on the T2 hyperspatial rigs will get you up to 14.9 AU/s, up from the ~12.17 AU/s (so an increase of 2.73 AU/s).
Add the Ascendancy implants (full set gives a 62.125% bonus) and you're up to 24.16 AU/s.
So on an interceptor those three mods can get you up to a ~3.88 AU/s bonus in warp velocity, even taking into account stacking penalties.

Long story short there's no reason to give interceptors yet another module to greatly increase their warp speed when they already warp pretty damn fast. The fixed bonus is better.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2014-05-21 19:15:47 UTC
Are you planning on adding a t2 variant?
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#70 - 2014-05-21 19:19:26 UTC
To me, those values are completely fair (@ James), but everyone has a taste.
What you need to remember though, is that this won't affect deceleration for interceptors. It is capped, they will only accelerate faster and gain a higher top warp speed.
I don't think it's overpowered on interceptors, it should hardly make a difference for even moderate warp distances compared to hyperspatial rigs.

These low slot modules fitted on a skirmish roaming gang, a gang of phantasms or similar would be valuable addition in some scenarios. You can get to places a bit quicker, but you sacrifice a valuable low slot which could have been subwarp velocity, damage or tank.
I think it will bring more diversity to fits without having to permanently fit a hyperspatial rig. You get the option to try different things.
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2014-05-21 19:23:52 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

How is the slowest warp speed in the game "a lot to begin with"?

Didn't proofread my post.. I meant LOW.. My fault.


Anyway.. if an Interceptor wants to trade from agility or whatever from it's lowslots to still warp away faster than my ship.. I'm fine with that..
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#72 - 2014-05-21 19:35:23 UTC
lol, why so small??

maybe its better to give flat + %, where % is % from ships warp speed. whould be much more flexible...
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#73 - 2014-05-21 19:40:28 UTC
Lidia Caderu wrote:
lol, why so small??

maybe its better to give flat + %, where % is % from ships warp speed. whould be much more flexible...


Then we have the trouble again with Interceptors: 2 Fast 2 Furious.

Or we have to make the "flat" +% a so low value, no-one will see much use in them.

Really, the modules work right now, why this bad math wish of having percentage values on everything? (In a way, the modules are already more flexible this way: Can be fitted on everything without being totally OP. A +% would again, benefit faster ships more, slower ships less. Which is the opposite of sensible. The modules should give a choice, not make your super-frigate even faster.)
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
Transgress
#74 - 2014-05-21 19:40:43 UTC
Good addition.

However I have a problem with the implementation. This modules gives flat increase yet they are capped at 3 per ship. THis goes against standard practice in EVE.

The usual approach is to have the modules stacking with each other for giving diminishing increase so fitting more than 3 is really not worth it.

Currently the +0.3 AU/s module:
1 +0.3
2 +0.6
3 +0.9

Why not tweak it.
Proposal +0.37 AU/s module (stacking penalized):
1 +0.37
2 +0.69
3 +0.90
4 +1.00
5 +1.04
6 +1.06

As you can see the numbers are not that much different. The greatest win is when using 2 modules where you go 0.09 AU/s faster than with current proposal.
Lidia Caderu
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#75 - 2014-05-21 19:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lidia Caderu
Owen Levanth wrote:
A +% would again, benefit faster ships more, slower ships less.

Thats why there is a flat part Cool
for example 0.3AU + 10%AU would be ok I think
edit: I mean flat part is for slow ships, and % part for fast Smile
Quinn Corvez
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-05-21 20:09:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Quinn Corvez
nahjustwarpin wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
I was hoping a module like that would be added eventually. Well done!

However, I don't think frigates should easily be able to fit these mods as they already warp fast. Therefore, i think it would be better if you added some PG to the for balancing reasons. For example, the greater the warp speed buff, the more PG required.

If the above was the case you could have these modules increase warp speed by 1, 2 and 3 AU/s


do you really think that giving freighters modules that would bump their warp speed from 1.37 to 4.37 wouldn't bee a bit too much? that's about the speed that destroyers have

also giving frigs a bonus of 0.2 -0.3 to au/s is not really much. I don't think that it will be popular choice for them


Are freighters getting low slots? I thought it was rigs... Either way a freighter would still align slow and it would give more option to the pilot if freighters had low slots to fix these things.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#77 - 2014-05-21 20:12:55 UTC
Yes, it's low slots now. Not rigs.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#78 - 2014-05-21 20:17:50 UTC
Why the hard limit and not a % based bonus?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#79 - 2014-05-21 20:23:20 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
sounds interesting.

I was just wondering why the decision was made to break consistency by using a flat bonus + max item limit instead of the stacking penalized bonus we know from all other item types.

Except all those other items that add flat bonuses. Like Armour plates, Shield Extenders, etc....
They have a long established precedent that items that add a fix number aren't stacking penalised. Items which add a percent are in order to stop cumulative percent getting larger & larger.
Voyager Arran
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2014-05-21 20:32:20 UTC
These are deliberately designed to be more useful for slow warping ships than for ships that already have good warp speeds.

They are not going to turn into a % Bonus.


No, you do not get a 20au/sec Interceptor