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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#921 - 2014-05-14 11:42:32 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Innominate wrote:
Sniper Smith wrote:
No one is getting any SP over it. I'll eat my eyepiece if we do lol

And as for the "It's no longer useful therefore we should get SP back.." line from a page back.. I didn't get the MONTH and change I spent training into an Orca back when they cut it's training time back by a third.. Cap pilots didn't get the time back from training BS V when the requirements changed to BS IV.


When the training time for the orca was cut, and you might have no longer personally needed those skills, they were still in the game and still conferred bonuses for things you could have done. Capital pilots had battleship 5 before, they had battleship 5 after, and battleship 5 still did matter when flying battleships.

This change is different, if you have SDO5 and CDO5 today, after the patch it's exactly the same result as if you had SDO5/CD00, 512k sp less.




I didn't get skill points back for Diplomatic relations when they removed what the skill does and now gives a totally different bonus.

You should have. In my opinion you could and should still be reimbursed for that skill. If you still want it you can put the SP back into it. If not, put it somewhere else.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Monthan
Omega Bureau
#922 - 2014-05-14 18:58:23 UTC
Jedediah Arndtz wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.



So you're saying the people who already had SDO to 5, and trained CDO 5 because of the devblog are SOL? Wow, thanks CCP, yet another way to **** the players.


+1

CCP must compensante current sentry drone t2 players, with unallocated SP...
Xavbian Deepleaf
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#923 - 2014-05-14 23:47:29 UTC
Looking at current sisi changes something is wrong ?

Tranquility sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/71637620140514234153.png
Singularity sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/58697720140514233653.png

So, i'm missing 5 levels in medium drones with Kronos update? wtf?
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#924 - 2014-05-15 03:24:37 UTC
Monthan wrote:
CCP must compensante current sentry drone t2 players, with unallocated SP...

No.

I've never got free SP each time CCP as increased the requirements for a module.. Neither should you.

Fly it now Fly it then only applies to Ships. In all other cases, you're on your own, and are just gonna have to suck it up and spend the day training the skills to get back where you are now :p
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#925 - 2014-05-15 06:25:05 UTC
The SENSIBLE option would have been:

Avionics = SDO current level
LDO = SDO current level

MDO = CDO current level

No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.





This is a serious suggestion of a better way to make this work without the need for reimbursement.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#926 - 2014-05-15 11:17:04 UTC
After experiencing Drone Upgrades Affecting the performance of Fighters.
I'd like to say - Impressed, nice buff.

I'd also be curious to see if a skill to increase Drone Orbit Speed of Heavy Drones, Fighters and Fighter Bombers might be a possibility ?

It would need to be a high ranked skill - 12 or 14 possibly - Increase Drone Orbit Speed by 2% per level.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Schlampa
Doomheim
#927 - 2014-05-15 19:28:06 UTC
Jedediah Arndtz wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.



So you're saying the people who already had SDO to 5, and trained CDO 5 because of the devblog are SOL?


It would be nice to have some further clarification for this. One obscure dev post is contradicting the official announcment and then never commented on again.
Erehwon Rorschach
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
#928 - 2014-05-16 10:02:48 UTC
When can we expect more information on the new faction drone modules?

Has there been any hints on this.


Because your mum just couldn't say no.
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#929 - 2014-05-16 17:09:01 UTC
I tested Garde II out today.

On sisi with the same skills i do 140 dps less than currently on TQ.


So sentry drones are getting nerfed.
Smile
Mario Putzo
#930 - 2014-05-16 21:51:03 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The SENSIBLE option would have been:

Avionics = SDO current level
LDO = SDO current level

MDO = CDO current level

No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.

This is a serious suggestion of a better way to make this work without the need for reimbursement.


I thought that at first too, but it doesn't work.

If I have SDO 5 and CDO 0
- I can use Lights and Mediums and train their T2 Variants
- I have +25KM Control Range
- I do not have any damage bonus.

Post Change
- I can use Lights and train their T2 Variants
- I can no longer use mediums or their T2 Variants
- I have 25KM Control Range
- I have a 25% Damage Bonus to my Light Drones

The only realistic and simplistic way to do it is:

Let SDO count for everything.
Scrap CDO and refund the SP on it.

Otherwise you end up with numerous variants of people being gifted various different benefits without actually training the skills for them.

SDO 5/CDO 0
= +25% Damage after change
CDO 5/SDO 0
= +25KM Drone Range
= +Access to T2 Training
= + Skill for Lights/Meds @ 5.

Because of the way the skills are currently it is impossible to split them without giving people a benefit in one category or the other, and this is an unfair approach to adjustment because people with both trained are going to lose an advantage that they trained to get.

So CCP should just give everyone their CDO SP back and call it a day. Easy peasy lemon squeasy.
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#931 - 2014-05-17 01:32:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nar' alk Breau
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
The SENSIBLE option would have been:

Avionics = SDO current level
LDO = SDO current level

MDO = CDO current level

No lost SP, no need for reimbursement.





This is a serious suggestion of a better way to make this work without the need for reimbursement.


Hmm. So if MDO = CDO then the time I spent training CDO would still give an advantage.

Edit: just saw Mario's post above me. Darn.
Moor Deybe
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#932 - 2014-05-17 10:40:47 UTC
Xavbian Deepleaf wrote:
Looking at current sisi changes something is wrong ?

Tranquility sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/71637620140514234153.png
Singularity sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/58697720140514233653.png

So, i'm missing 5 levels in medium drones with Kronos update? wtf?
I was on Singularity a few hours ago looking at exactly the same thing as the new drone skills, range and damage stats appear to be released there.

My Light Drone Operation was at Level 5 as expected, but the Medium Drone Operation skill was untrained, but with the green tick indicating that I was capable of training that skill.
The Medium Drone operation skillbook wasn't available on the market to buy, with the usual option to search contracts offered.

I'm assuming that this is all a "work in progress", otherwise yes, something is very wrong and the reallocation of skill points has failed.
stoicfaux
#933 - 2014-05-17 11:25:01 UTC
Erehwon Rorschach wrote:
When can we expect more information on the new faction drone modules?

Has there been any hints on this.



So far on Sisi:
DDAs : 25.8% (Amarr Navy, Federation Navy, Dread Guristas, Sentient Drone)
Drone Nav: 32% (Federation Navy, Sentient Drone)
Omni TE (low slot): 10% / 20% / 10% for optimal/falloff/tracking (Amarr Navy, Dread Guristas, Sentient)
Omni Link (med slot): 8% / 16% / 17.5% for optimal/falloff/tracking (Fed Navy, Sentient)


How to get onto Sisi test server and get a preview and maybe even actually help test. Also test forum.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#934 - 2014-05-17 11:25:20 UTC
Moor Deybe wrote:
Xavbian Deepleaf wrote:
Looking at current sisi changes something is wrong ?

Tranquility sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/71637620140514234153.png
Singularity sshot: http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/58697720140514233653.png

So, i'm missing 5 levels in medium drones with Kronos update? wtf?
I was on Singularity a few hours ago looking at exactly the same thing as the new drone skills, range and damage stats appear to be released there.

My Light Drone Operation was at Level 5 as expected, but the Medium Drone Operation skill was untrained, but with the green tick indicating that I was capable of training that skill.
The Medium Drone operation skillbook wasn't available on the market to buy, with the usual option to search contracts offered.

I'm assuming that this is all a "work in progress", otherwise yes, something is very wrong and the reallocation of skill points has failed.

As mentioned by a Dev (CCP Rise I think) in another thread (not going looking for it but feel free, I think it was the Faction Battleship thread)
The script for drones has not been run on Sisi but will be run on TQ when the time comes.
If you have Scout Drone Operation 5 now, you will have Lights Drones 5 + Medium Drones 5 when the update goes live.

As the current skill "Combat Drone Operation" Is not currently a prerequisite for the use of Medium or Light Drones but is simply a DPS skill, this description in the Dev blog needs to be edited.

Quote:
We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation. This means that all light combat drones will now be unlocked and bonused from the Light Drone Operation skill, and medium combat drones will be unlocked and bonused from the Medium Drone Operation skill. During the patch downtime, existing players with the Combat Drone Operation skill trained will receive both new skills trained to the same level that their Combat Drone Operation skill was trained to.
As per CCP Rise ( I think, can't find the post) He confirmed, the highest level in Scout Drone Operation OR Combat Drone Operation will be used for the new skills of - Light Drone Operation & Medium Drone Operation.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Nar' alk Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#935 - 2014-05-17 14:46:50 UTC
I posted this in another thread, but wanted to post it here as well. Would something like this work?

As it stands now, after the patch an SDO 5 will be equal to an SDO5 + CDO5 person. In this respect CDO5 isn't needed. Instead of disregarding CDO5 in this fashion, create 2 new skill call Advanced Light Drone Operation and Advanced Medium Drone Operation.

Reduce the amount of damage that LDO and MDO do by 2.5% and give ALDO and AMDO that 2.5% bonus.

An SDO 5 player is still able to fly what he could before, MDO5 players get no skill points but get to keep their advantage. I'll admit I don't have the specifics worked out, but it's an idea.
Mikey TwoGuns
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#936 - 2014-05-18 05:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikey TwoGuns
I might be confused here. And I hope I am.

I have Scout Drone Operation trained to 5. This was completed a couple years ago.

And I just got done training Combat Drone Operation 5 a few days ago. I did this under the assumption that the two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation, would inherit only the same level as Combat Drone Operation as stated in the Dev Blog:

Quote:
We are also splitting the current Combat Drone Operation skill into two new skills, Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation.


Now, Fozzie is stating that inherited training for the two new skills will come from EITHER Combat Drone Operation or Scout Drone Operation, whichever is highest:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


So does this mean that the time I spent training Combat Drone Operation 5--about 8 days--will be essentially wasted? If so, then I am being kicked squarely in the nuts.

Furthermore, I had advised all of my corp mates via mail to train Combat Drone Operation 5 after I read the Dev Blog. Many of them probably had Scout Drone Operation already trained to 5 as well. It may have been foolish to advise them to do it, but I assumed CCP wouldn't dare to blindside their own players in regards to their SP.

Please, somebody throw me a bone here. Please tell me that I am interpreting Fozzie incorrectly. If not, then I will demand a SP reimbursement for Combat Drone Operation.
Solhild
Doomheim
#937 - 2014-05-18 10:11:03 UTC
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Michael Harari wrote:
Is 1.9999 repeating the same thing as 2? PPP
You sir, are asking the real questions here! Blink


It is the same, I'll demonstrate:

x=1.999...

Multiply by 10

10x=19.999...

Subtract x

9x=18

Divide by 9

x=2

Big smile
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#938 - 2014-05-18 13:13:16 UTC
Mikey TwoGuns wrote:
I might be confused here. And I hope I am.


Please, somebody throw me a bone here. Please tell me that I am interpreting Fozzie incorrectly. If not, then I will demand a SP reimbursement for Combat Drone Operation.

I could throw you a bone but it wouldn't be a tasty one.
According to CCP Fozzie, THE BLOG IS WRONG, it has been from the start.

For reasons known only to themselves the blog has not to date been updated to show the correct information and the only acknowledgement of the change is an obscure 4 line post from the lead Dev on page 38 of a (so far) 47 page thread.

Many players who do not troll the forums looking for information would still be under the impression they will need COMBAT DRONE OPERATION 5 to get Light Drone Operation 5 & Medium Drone Operation 5 at the time of the patch.
NB; I have spoken to a few newer players asking advice on which skill to train 1st...

8 days does not sound much when you say it quickly and the 512k SP is not that big a deal, although many (myself included) could have put it to far better use than training unnecessary skills.
- - - -
I wonder if updating the Official Blog to show the correct information would remove the need for the following quote, which refers to a post buried in another thread.
Quote:
CCP Fozzie
The skill upgrade script that will be run on TQ has not been run on SISI. The information in my post that Joe linked is indeed still accurate.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Mikey TwoGuns
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#939 - 2014-05-18 18:05:01 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Mikey TwoGuns wrote:
I might be confused here. And I hope I am.


Please, somebody throw me a bone here. Please tell me that I am interpreting Fozzie incorrectly. If not, then I will demand a SP reimbursement for Combat Drone Operation.

I could throw you a bone but it wouldn't be a tasty one.
According to CCP Fozzie, THE BLOG IS WRONG, it has been from the start.

For reasons known only to themselves the blog has not to date been updated to show the correct information and the only acknowledgement of the change is an obscure 4 line post from the lead Dev on page 38 of a (so far) 47 page thread.

Many players who do not troll the forums looking for information would still be under the impression they will need COMBAT DRONE OPERATION 5 to get Light Drone Operation 5 & Medium Drone Operation 5 at the time of the patch.
NB; I have spoken to a few newer players asking advice on which skill to train 1st...

8 days does not sound much when you say it quickly and the 512k SP is not that big a deal, although many (myself included) could have put it to far better use than training unnecessary skills.
- - - -
I wonder if updating the Official Blog to show the correct information would remove the need for the following quote, which refers to a post buried in another thread.
Quote:
CCP Fozzie
The skill upgrade script that will be run on TQ has not been run on SISI. The information in my post that Joe linked is indeed still accurate.


Thanks for the reply, Sgt Ocker.

Training a skill for 8 days just to see it wasted is a big deal, in my case. Especially because I advised many others in my corp to do so the same. So they will be getting kicked in the nuts as well, and I am largely responsible for it. This weighs quite heavily on me.

This ordeal appears to be a communication goof committed by Fozzie. His dev blog post, in regards to the implementation of Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation, is incorrect and very misleading. It caused me and many others to spend 8 days of training on a skill that did not have to be trained in order to acquire level 5 in the two new skills. After the patch is implemented, the 512K SP devoted to Combat Drone Operation will be gone with no persisting benefit. This is wasted SP. Wasted on account of a goofed official statement made by a CCP developer.

Fozzie, I understand that you made a communication mistake, and I can forgive you for that. But the onus is on you to ensure that those who trained up Combat Drone Operation in accordance to your statement in the dev blog are compensated for the SP that they unknowingly wasted. This would be a fair way to resolve this ordeal.

Afterthought: Alternatively, you could change the skill implementation plan altogether to something more sensible. Using the highest level of either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation seems to be a pretty sloppy way of doing it anyways.
Trekan Kion
SUPREME MATHEMATICS
#940 - 2014-05-18 18:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Trekan Kion
Based on the dev blog I trained SDO and CDO to lvl V on 4 toons in the last few weeks or so. I did not have the benefit of these skills over a long period but only decided to change my training plan based on that dev blog. It now indeed looks like I wasted 8-10 days training per toon as CDO is being removed and as it will not affect any skill transfers. Those toons are on the order of 10 to 13 million SP so it feels like a big waste. Reimbursement of those SP does seem in order.