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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

First post First post
Author
Draiv Solregard
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#941 - 2014-05-18 22:56:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


If I understand correctly
Scout Drone Operation: Rank 1: Drone Control Range Bonus: 4d 21h to Level V
Combat Drone Operation: Rank 2: Drone Damage Bonus: 9d 18h to Level V

Scout Drone Operation Level V = Light Drone Operation V & Medium Drone Operation V
A skill with a bonus to control range changes into two skills with damage bonuses (Rank 1 = Rank 1 + Rank 2)
In just over half the time as Combat Drone Operation V
or
Combat Drone Operation Level V = Light Drone Operation V & Medium Drone Operation V (Rank 2 = Rank 1 + Rank 2)
A skill with a bonus to damage splits into two skills with damage bonuses

On Tranquility I have Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation IV
On Singularity I have Light Drone Operation IV and I couldn't find Medium Drone Operation

Even if Medium Drone Operation is not available shouldn't I still have gotten Light Drone Operation at V instead of IV?
Destriouth Hollow
Star-Destroying-Warlords
#942 - 2014-05-18 22:56:40 UTC
Nerfed Supercarriers? Are you guys mad`?
With 2 Drone Damage Amplifier II + 0 DCUs the FighterBomber does the same dps.

With 3 FACTION Drone Damage Amplifiers + 5 DCUs + Nyx Rolebonus the Supercarrier will do Rofl-lmao-dps from hell....
Faction Omnis might help aswell.
A super used to be capped at 25 theoretical drones. Now its 30.
And you can always shield-tank a super if you get off your "all capitals need to be armor or I am confused" - attitude.
I TheCount I
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#943 - 2014-05-19 03:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: I TheCount I
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face.

Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP
Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP
Total SP: 768,000 SP

Original Plan:
Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos)
Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one)

Now what you are saying
Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP)
Seriously?

This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#944 - 2014-05-19 04:46:14 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
Nerfed Supercarriers? Are you guys mad`?
With 2 Drone Damage Amplifier II + 0 DCUs the FighterBomber does the same dps.

With 3 FACTION Drone Damage Amplifiers + 5 DCUs + Nyx Rolebonus the Supercarrier will do Rofl-lmao-dps from hell....
Faction Omnis might help aswell.
A super used to be capped at 25 theoretical drones. Now its 30.
And you can always shield-tank a super if you get off your "all capitals need to be armor or I am confused" - attitude.

Yes and everyone will want to fly 1 of the most expensive ships in the game with sub optimal tank, Right?
Shield Supers fit for Shield, Armor Supers fit for Armor, that is where the best attributes are for each.
You could theoretically, shield fit an Aeon, all the DDA's and lowslot Omnis you could fit would increase its Dps potential by a lot but I doubt it would last long in combat.

I think what we are more likely to see is, Shield Supers find more of a place in Capital Fleets. Not shield fit Armour Supers.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Mikey TwoGuns
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#945 - 2014-05-19 12:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikey TwoGuns
I TheCount I wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face.

Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP
Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP
Total SP: 768,000 SP

Original Plan:
Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos)
Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one)

Now what you are saying
Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP)
Seriously?

This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong


You are reading it right. That is pretty much how it is. I had a hard time believing it too.

If I don't get the feedback from CCP that I want to hear in the next day or so, then I will ask our CSM representatives to take on the issue.
Gabriel Dube
Outer Planets Alliance
#946 - 2014-05-20 01:05:35 UTC
I TheCount I wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face.

Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP
Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP
Total SP: 768,000 SP

Original Plan:
Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos)
Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one)

Now what you are saying
Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP)
Seriously?

This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong


I'm in the same boat as you, I went on to train CDO V as soon as I heard about the changes when I resubbed a month ago.

Then I heard about the subtle correction to how the skill split was to be implemented, and contemplated my wasted training time.

Then I realized that, while it might seem unjust to give a greater benefit to those who didn't bother trying to get CDO up to V than to those who did, nobody is really losing anything worthwhile compared to pre-change. You're just getting a smaller privilege than others.
Mikey TwoGuns
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#947 - 2014-05-20 01:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikey TwoGuns
Gabriel Dube wrote:
I'm in the same boat as you, I went on to train CDO V as soon as I heard about the changes when I resubbed a month ago.

Then I heard about the subtle correction to how the skill split was to be implemented, and contemplated my wasted training time.

Then I realized that, while it might seem unjust to give a greater benefit to those who didn't bother trying to get CDO up to V than to those who did, nobody is really losing anything worthwhile compared to pre-change. You're just getting a smaller privilege than others.


512,000 SP, roughly a week's worth, is quite worthwhile if you ask me.
Erasmus Phoenix
Avalanche.
#948 - 2014-05-21 02:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Erasmus Phoenix
So it has been drawn to my attention that fighter bombers use "fake missiles" - how will these be affected by omnidirectional tracking links and enhancers? Will they gain a benefit or not? similarly, will the Drone Sharpshooting skill affect fighter bombers?

They certainly don't have optimal range or tracking stats available to players. This is something that should be addressed for clarity.

EDIT: and while I remember...

Someone REALLY needs to address the Drone Link Augmentor situation. The logical thing is to have them moved to Drone Avionics (Like their faction version), but this hasn't happened yet on SiSi, what is going to be happening with their skill requirements?
Sean Crees
Sean's Safe Haven
#949 - 2014-05-21 09:18:18 UTC
I TheCount I wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Sorry for the delay in answering some of the skill questions guys.

As many of you have suggested, we'll be giving pilots the same level in both Light Drone Operation and Medium Drone Operation as the highest level they have in either Scout Drone Operation or Combat Drone Operation over the patch downtime.

The Light Drone Operation skill will be rank 1, the Medium Drone Operation skill will be rank 2.


Okay, So I have trained both skills to V to get a head start (New Character) now you say that all i needed was Scout Drone Operation to V and not even needing Combat Drone Operation. That is just a slap in the face.

Scout Drone Operation V: 256,000 SP
Combat Drone Operation V: 512,000 SP
Total SP: 768,000 SP

Original Plan:
Train Scout Drone Op V (for T2 drones, not even for Kronos)
Train Combat Drone Op V ( get 2 skills for one)

Now what you are saying
Train Scout Drone Op V (Get a free 512,000 SP)
Seriously?

This Definately should be refunded in unallocated SP. . . or am I reading something wrong


I read the dev blog, and immediately went and put Combat Drone Op 5 in the skill queue (was at level 3 i think previously, and i had no plans on leveling it anytime soon). Now after spending a week training it i find out i am basically just out 1 week of training because of CCP's oversight...

People with Combat Drone Op V should definately get a SP refund. We shouldn't have to pay for your mistakes.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#950 - 2014-05-21 10:03:42 UTC
Erasmus Phoenix wrote:
So it has been drawn to my attention that fighter bombers use "fake missiles" - how will these be affected by omnidirectional tracking links and enhancers? Will they gain a benefit or not? similarly, will the Drone Sharpshooting skill affect fighter bombers?

They certainly don't have optimal range or tracking stats available to players. This is something that should be addressed for clarity.

EDIT: and while I remember...

Someone REALLY needs to address the Drone Link Augmentor situation. The logical thing is to have them moved to Drone Avionics (Like their faction version), but this hasn't happened yet on SiSi, what is going to be happening with their skill requirements?

Sorry to tell you, this thread is no longer a sticky - usually a good indicator, Devs are no longer paying it much attention.
As it has been the best part of 2 weeks since a Dev even acknowledged this thread, or any of the concerns (Incorrect information in official blog encouraging players to train redundant skills).
I would not hold my breath for any official answer to your questions.

It seems players are becoming more like mushrooms every day.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Mikey TwoGuns
Dr Jihad's Brigade of Interstellar Mujahideen
#951 - 2014-05-21 23:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Mikey TwoGuns
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Sorry to tell you, this thread is no longer a sticky - usually a good indicator, Devs are no longer paying it much attention.
As it has been the best part of 2 weeks since a Dev even acknowledged this thread, or any of the concerns (Incorrect information in official blog encouraging players to train redundant skills).
I would not hold my breath for any official answer to your questions.

It seems players are becoming more like mushrooms every day.


You are probably right. And your last sentence made me think about something else.

Currently, only a fraction of the players who were blindsided by the incorrect information in the dev blog actually know they have been blindsided. A lot of players read and gossiped about the dev blog when it came out, but only a few know about Fozzie's actual implementation plan for the drone skills. People will eventually find out when Kronos is released, though.

How much noise will people generate when the truth about the drone skill changes dawns on them? I am genuinely curious about this.

At this point, I am not going to contact the CSM as mentioned previously. Instead, I will keep quiet and see how this plays out.
Minmatar Citizen 953102
Luv Gun
#952 - 2014-05-23 19:48:55 UTC
Destriouth Hollow wrote:
Nerfed Supercarriers? Are you guys mad`?
With 2 Drone Damage Amplifier II + 0 DCUs the FighterBomber does the same dps.

With 3 FACTION Drone Damage Amplifiers + 5 DCUs + Nyx Rolebonus the Supercarrier will do Rofl-lmao-dps from hell....
Faction Omnis might help aswell.
A super used to be capped at 25 theoretical drones. Now its 30.
And you can always shield-tank a super if you get off your "all capitals need to be armor or I am confused" - attitude.


Finally someone as a bit of sense
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#953 - 2014-05-23 19:59:27 UTC
Draiv Solregard wrote:


On Tranquility I have Scout Drone Operation V and Combat Drone Operation IV
On Singularity I have Light Drone Operation IV and I couldn't find Medium Drone Operation

Even if Medium Drone Operation is not available shouldn't I still have gotten Light Drone Operation at V instead of IV?


No because as they mentioned elsewhere they haven't run the script on Sisi and don't plan to - they only plan to run it on TQ when the time comes.
Rdubs
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#954 - 2014-05-23 21:47:40 UTC
Apologies if this has already been covered on this thread, but someone has reported that on Sisi the Wasp changes (and I imagine the other heavy drones as well) have been much different than shown on the original spreadsheet in the dev blog. Namely, their optimal range and signature resolution have both increased substantially. Currently the Wasp optimal range is 1000 meters and sig resolution 125. The person is reporting that on Sisi the drone is now showing a base optimal range of 4800 meters and a sig resolution of 400, bringing it in line with Sentry drones. The tracking has been increased as well but not nearly as substantially. I can see the argument that the increase in optimal will offset the increase in sig radius, but heavy drones are moving around a lot and I just have a feeling this is going to be a big net negative trying to deal with smaller stuff like rat frigs. Anyone remember seeing anything on this big change to optimal/sig resolution?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#955 - 2014-05-24 01:13:06 UTC
Rdubs wrote:
Apologies if this has already been covered on this thread, but someone has reported that on Sisi the Wasp changes (and I imagine the other heavy drones as well) have been much different than shown on the original spreadsheet in the dev blog. Namely, their optimal range and signature resolution have both increased substantially. Currently the Wasp optimal range is 1000 meters and sig resolution 125. The person is reporting that on Sisi the drone is now showing a base optimal range of 4800 meters and a sig resolution of 400, bringing it in line with Sentry drones. The tracking has been increased as well but not nearly as substantially. I can see the argument that the increase in optimal will offset the increase in sig radius, but heavy drones are moving around a lot and I just have a feeling this is going to be a big net negative trying to deal with smaller stuff like rat frigs. Anyone remember seeing anything on this big change to optimal/sig resolution?

They also got an increase (although slight) to Orbit Velocity, which will help a little with Npc frigs .
The 50% increase to (mwd) Velocity will go a long way to countering the increased Sig and catching npc frigs, before they can do too much harm.
Increased Ehp, increased Dps, I suppose the Sig Radius increase is the trade off, for what are substantial buffs overall.

Increased Optimal Range, does bring up another point I have been unable to find an answer for - Activation Proximity, my understanding of how it works, using T2 Heavy drones as the example - 4,000 m Activation Proximity.
Drone MWD's to within Activation Proximity of a target (4,000 m)
It then Drops to orbit speed, at which time it engages the target.
Target is moving away from drone and increases range between them to 4,100m
Wasp ll will have an optimal range of 4,800m and Activation Proximity of 4,000m

Does the Wasp ll continue to fire on the target once it is outside "Activation Proximity" (but still within range) or does it cease firing enter MWD mode to catchup again?

If in fact it is the latter, why do drones have optimal range and falloff that exceeds their range of engagement (4,000m)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Elmo Martoh
Doomheim
#956 - 2014-05-24 14:40:34 UTC
Based on what I've been reading the past week, I am very confused on what to train to best take advantage of the new skills.

I thought CDO was the way to go initially so I and training CDO to LV5right now. SDO is only L3 at the moment.

Now I am more confused than ever.
Opa God
Northwest Industries International
#957 - 2014-05-24 16:55:09 UTC
I would train Scout Drone Operation 5 if i can get it faster.
Elmo Martoh
Doomheim
#958 - 2014-05-24 17:39:43 UTC
Opa God wrote:
I would train Scout Drone Operation 5 if i can get it faster.

Thanks, I can get CDO with a few hours to spare before patch DT or SDO a few days before.
Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#959 - 2014-05-25 15:13:59 UTC
Looking at test server info from other people, with faction DDAs it is impossible to get the same damage you used to have with T2 DDAs on Gardes.

I understood the nerf to gardes a little bit, was ok with it. But the fact that even with faction damage mods, you can't even break even, let alone get a little bit of an upgrade, is depressing.

Basically the only ship these damage mods will be good for (seeing as they will probably be at least 100m a pop like other damage mods) are capitals, the rattlesnake, or the navy domi.

You also just nerfed the max dps of both the rattle, ishtar and the navy domi in PVE, while making gardes undesirable even for serp rats, as kinetic is their main hole and with the warden buff coming combined with this nerf will probably make them more desirable.

I won't call it yet, because I haven't personally worked out all the numbers, but I think you may have finally killed gardes for most PVE applications.

Alternatively, with heavy drone buffs coming, they might start being used in PVE over sentries again. We'll have to wait and see.
Hawklandier Taranogas
Old American Syndicate
Optimistic Wasteland
#960 - 2014-05-26 13:59:33 UTC
There is a very simple answer to the drone question here!

When you made the changes to the battle cruisers and destroyers, you gave everyone four skills for that one. The rank of the skill was determined by the skill level at the time. i.e I had destroyers 4 at the time, then downtime came and then I had all the racial destroyer skills at 4. Sound familiar?

Why not give everyone the light and medium drone skills from the scout drone operation skill? The worst thing your doing is making making certain players having to up their clones for the increase in skill points like what you did when you made the BC/Dessy changes.

Why can't you simply do this? Its much less of a headache Ugh

I have likes? How the hell did that happen? :D