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Dev Blog: Giving Drones an Assist

First post First post
Author
Gfy Trextron
Soul Takers
Pen Is Out
#1021 - 2014-06-03 15:44:39 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.

There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters

Character 1
Combat drone (not injected)
Scout drone V


result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills

Character 2
Combat drone V
Scout drone (not injected)

This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations.
result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)

Character 3
Combat drone V
Scout drone V

result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary

This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.

Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it.


Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today.

Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube.
dolus directus1
Doomheim
#1022 - 2014-06-03 16:04:32 UTC  |  Edited by: dolus directus1
So Fighter Bomber Hitpoints didn't get doubled as it was anounced in the Devblog or is this a bug?


Drone bay info only shows doubled shield but should be more with the hull and skill bonus of supers.
Deimir
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1023 - 2014-06-03 16:40:06 UTC
With the changes to Drone Interfacing, my Armageddon just lost 200 dps because Geckos were excluded from the damage rebalance...
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#1024 - 2014-06-03 18:47:46 UTC
dolus directus1 wrote:
So Fighter Bomber Hitpoints didn't get doubled as it was anounced in the Devblog or is this a bug?


Drone bay info only shows doubled shield but should be more with the hull and skill bonus of supers.


It won't show the stats unless the bombers are in your drone bay of your super carrier since the bonus is a ship bonus
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#1025 - 2014-06-03 18:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Aureus Ahishatsu
Gfy Trextron wrote:
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.

There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters

Character 1
Combat drone (not injected)
Scout drone V


result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills

Character 2
Combat drone V
Scout drone (not injected)

This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations.
result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)

Character 3
Combat drone V
Scout drone V

result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary

This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.

Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it.


Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today.

Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube.


Unless you were a noob that trained Combat drones V then you got double screwed because they probably did it unmapped and without implants. I was equally disappointed.... Like I said this change cost me 70 DAYS of unnecessary training between all my toons.....
Rikki Bigg
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#1026 - 2014-06-04 13:37:31 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Gfy Trextron wrote:
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.

There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters

Character 1
Combat drone (not injected)
Scout drone V


result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills

Character 2
Combat drone V
Scout drone (not injected)

This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations.
result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)

Character 3
Combat drone V
Scout drone V

result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary

This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.

Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it.


Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today.

Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube.


Unless you were a noob that trained Combat drones V then you got double screwed because they probably did it unmapped and without implants. I was equally disappointed.... Like I said this change cost me 70 DAYS of unnecessary training between all my toons.....


Dont forget that players with CDO and not SDO still cannot use the Drone Link Augmentors that they could use before the change...
Rabbit P
Nuwa Foundation
Fraternity.
#1027 - 2014-06-05 08:00:57 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


To clarify, the orbit range is determined by the entityFlyRange attribute.


in the spreadsheet , heavy drone's entityFlyRange is between 2800 and 3200
in the dev blog, heavy drone's orbit range increased by between 1300% and 1500%

heavy drone's orbit range before kronos is just 200m?
Joe South
Repercussus
Forsaken Empire.
#1028 - 2014-06-05 13:06:36 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
Gfy Trextron wrote:
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
To reiterate on my earlier comment scout drone operation to V (1x) was only 216,000 sp where as combat drone operation (2x) is 512,000 sp.

There are three situations which would be nice if CCP would address for different characters

Character 1
Combat drone (not injected)
Scout drone V


result: change nothing and thanks for the free skills

Character 2
Combat drone V
Scout drone (not injected)

This would most likely have been a very odd train given the characteristic but I'm willing to bet there were several newer players that got this based off their corp leadership recommendations.
result: character receives 296,000 sp (sp of combat - missing sp of scout)

Character 3
Combat drone V
Scout drone V

result: player receives 512,000 free sp as the combat was completely unnecessary

This obviously does not take into account people without these skills to V but you can easily apply the same principles I listed above to their characters.

Even if the only thing that happens is that players with combat drone to V would get the "character 2" option regardless of their scout drone skill I would be more accepting. It still would screw over people who got both to V but it wouldn't feel so much like a bad April fools joke for those of use who spent the time training it.


Silly me, I assumed that this is what was going to happen when I read the latest notes yesterday. Was not happy when I looked for my SP's to apply today.

Noobs got a reach around and we didn't even get lube.


Unless you were a noob that trained Combat drones V then you got double screwed because they probably did it unmapped and without implants. I was equally disappointed.... Like I said this change cost me 70 DAYS of unnecessary training between all my toons.....


So, is anyone at CCP going to address this, or are you going to keep pretending this inequity doesn't exist?
Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#1029 - 2014-06-05 15:04:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Aureus Ahishatsu
In continuing my rant about this change there is even more inequality in the gifted skills since the patch. Below are two situations and what happened post patch and you will understand my frustration even more.


Character 1
1x scout drone operation V
2x combat drone (not injected)

Post patch
light combat drone V
medium combat drone V
drone avionics V

Character 2
1x scout drone (not injected)
2x combat drone V

Post patch
Light combat drone V
medium combat drone V
(note no drone avionics)

So not only did you waste more time training you also don't get the skill a 1x skill gave. This is ridiculous as the only reason they changed everything was because people complained about not being able to use medium drones post patch yet anyone who had t2 sentries but not the racial skills can no longer use them without getting those skills.
AllDark Kane
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1030 - 2014-06-07 10:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: AllDark Kane
So, here’s my view of the current situation with drones after the Kronos update.

I’ve already agreed with one of the previous posts, concerning drone mechanics in combat. Right now the cycle MWD-orbit-MWD renders the drones useless in a high-speed combat and it’s true for all types of drones.
Take Warriors for example. They got a speed boost, BUT even before the update I was able to raise their speed up to 7k. So, here’s the question: what does this speed boost give them? Nothing in particular.

And here’s why:
If the frigates speed is above 3.5 k m/s, the drones aren’t able to hit the target within the optimal range. Likely because Warriors lack tracking.

Let me explain what happens by drawing a parallel between drones and turrets.
Imagine if the turrets tracking mechanics worked like this – after defining the target’s coordinates in space, the turrets don’t align themselves to those coordinates directly.
Instead they first start moving along the vertical line till it intersects with the horizontal line, then they continue moving along the horizontal line till they finally reach the above mentioned coordinates. The target is still there? No? Too bad.

So, we are back to where we started: define the coordinates –> vertical aiming -> horizontal aiming (starting MWD for drones)….And once again the target has left the previously defined coordinates. How so?
So, what we’re looking at here is the example of how the drones’ MWD-orbit cycle works.
If the turrets tracking mechanism worked as it was described above, the turrets wouldn’t hit the targets after they crossed a certain speed threshold, the turrets would need ten times better tracking then they have now, 1 to 100 or even 1000.

But if the turrets did work according to the above-mentioned tracking mechanics 1 to 100 or 1 to 1000, they wouldn’t need tracking at all. Because they’ll be hitting their targets anyway.
As for the drones there’s a 99% chance of drones missing their target, if it flies above 4k m/s, thanks to the low orbiting speed of drones, even if their MWD speed is 7k m/s.

What I’m proposing is:

1. letting the drones shoot their targets without switching from MWD to orbiting in case the drone doesn’t have enough time to shoot its target in optimal range after calculating the point of entering the orbit.

2. raising the orbiting speed. According to my estimates it should be half the maximum MWD speed. Of course, in this case calculations must be accurate, but I doubt it will be of any problem once you have exact numbers.

3. if you don’t want to make the drones work right, try making turrets tracking mechanics work similar to what I wrote above keeping current tracking speeds intact. We’ll see how the majority of players reacts to such adjustments.

I would like my propositions to be considered as an option in patching the Kronos update, because you created drones as a weapon, but you didn’t make them work as they should.

Dear developers, your ideas are great and the Kronos update has brought many improvements, but it didn’t bring us what was originally intended.

I would also like to ask the EVE-community to support my post.

With best regards, capsuleer Alldark Kane
Dalmat Gadin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1031 - 2014-06-09 16:40:47 UTC
Aureus Ahishatsu wrote:
In continuing my rant about this change there is even more inequality in the gifted skills since the patch. Below are two situations and what happened post patch and you will understand my frustration even more.


Character 1
1x scout drone operation V
2x combat drone (not injected)

Post patch
light combat drone V
medium combat drone V
drone avionics V

Character 2
1x scout drone (not injected)
2x combat drone V

Post patch
Light combat drone V
medium combat drone V
(note no drone avionics)

So not only did you waste more time training you also don't get the skill a 1x skill gave. This is ridiculous as the only reason they changed everything was because people complained about not being able to use medium drones post patch yet anyone who had t2 sentries but not the racial skills can no longer use them without getting those skills.

Honestly if this was a large investment of your time you would think to do research before you would commit to training on all of your characters. The information about the drone skills have been posted on the forums for more then a month before the patch hit, so you can really only be mad at yourself for not investing some time but instead jumped the gun and went straight into training.
Deriah Book
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1032 - 2014-06-09 18:04:25 UTC
The more I look at my skill tree the more disappointed I am with the nerf to sentry drones. I'm well over 100 days of training away from getting back to where I was the day before the patch. And that is only if I count the ship bonuses on the Stratios. Without the ship bonuses Sentries are still down 10%.

Blah. . .

Aureus Ahishatsu
Deadspace Knights
#1033 - 2014-06-09 19:53:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Aureus Ahishatsu
Dalmat Gadin wrote:

Honestly if this was a large investment of your time you would think to do research before you would commit to training on all of your characters. The information about the drone skills have been posted on the forums for more then a month before the patch hit, so you can really only be mad at yourself for not investing some time but instead jumped the gun and went straight into training.


Yes they have been posted on the forums. I'm sorry I used the DEV BLOGS which are supposed to be the source for information pertaining to the patch. And it did say on the forums that CDO would be the primary skill originally. I continued checking the DEV BLOGS but not the forums as I figured since that is the primary source of releasing information it would be posted there. However it was not posted on the dev blogs until much later by which time I had already spent the time. not to mention the fact I shouldn't have to weed through 20 pages of forum notes just to find the information pertaining to this change with no posting of the information anywhere else. Some of us have jobs and don't spend hours every day reading through every forum chain on the server....
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1034 - 2014-06-09 23:41:58 UTC
Dalmat Gadin wrote:

Honestly if this was a large investment of your time you would think to do research before you would commit to training on all of your characters. The information about the drone skills have been posted on the forums for more then a month before the patch hit, so you can really only be mad at yourself for not investing some time but instead jumped the gun and went straight into training.


Why even bother posting to say such a thing? It's like you don't want CCP to treat everyone equally and feel so strongly that you must post about it? Your point is moot, anyway.

I finished training CDO V (having already had SDO V) about a week before the first dev blog announcement. I trained it at that time purely for remap reasons, not because I actually would get benefit immediately from the skill. I planned my training out to be optimal. I spent the ISK for +5s. I used a PLEX to train it with dual-character training. And all of this was a complete waste because CCP decided to remove the skill without any reimbursement for characters like mine (because I already had SDO V, SDO was used for all the skill transitions and CDO was simply and quietly removed). I did not speculate on the dev blog, so your argument is irrelevant. Although, if I had trained the skill because of the dev blog, the inequality of the change would still exist. It really does not matter.

This may only be 10 days of training time. It may be 100 days if you have 10 alts. The fact that CCP implemented a change as careless as this - that is so obviously imbalanced - and is unwilling to respond to any of the valid concerns brought forward by the players is a disgrace. If CCP continues to stay quiet on this and refuses to acknowledge the inequality that resulted from these changes, then it will remain a total blow to CCPs reputation in the minds of quite a few players. It is definitely not an encouraging sign if a change like this can make it into the game, even more discouraging if it is left uncorrected and unacknowledged. What prevents this from happening again with a skill that requires 2 PLEX to train? I guess we have to be careful not to pick the wrong skill combinations, else we might be out of luck...