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WiS pledge fundrising

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Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#361 - 2014-05-12 15:41:42 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Well duh

That's the main reason to have WiS in the first place

Welcome to where the rest of us got to 18 months ago
Uh no, completely different. The FPS runs off Unreal Engine, it's an actual game. WiS is 'walking' the catwalk to show off all your Noble Exchange junk. As we know WiS or Carbon failed at anything really usable.


Yeah right, they are unable to use anythin from one in the other, or base one off the other.


I'm sure you meant this sarcastically, but it is much more likely to be literally true than not. There is absolutely no reason so suspect any assets in Trinity2/CARBON would be portable to the UT engine or back, they are not built on one another or derivative in any way.
Even something as basic as textures will have a completely different way of being mipmapped, let alone any alpha-blends used to support surface effects, which we know CCP were creating from scratch in CARBON.
Not to mention all the design decisions you make with the current tools you have in mind, which will need to be completely re-created if you even try to do a 1-for-1 port.
One amusing example is league of legends - pretty much everything in the game which is a spawnable effect is made out of minions, that they stack and change the size of. On top of creating some dumb interactions, if they ever wanted to port the game into an independent engine/environment they would need to basically re-make the whole game from the ground up, since silly things like that won't port.

Can we just stop with the "just copy and paste!" nonsense, please.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#362 - 2014-05-12 15:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
The actual irony in the "just port it!" arguments, is that the entire reason CCP were/are creating the CARBON framework is to create a single unified environment, which will allow them to then re-use code/other game assets between projects without needing to re-invent the wheel everytime.
You're basically asking CCP to continue WiS/carbon by abandoning WiS/carbon Lol

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Meilandra Vanderganken
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#363 - 2014-05-12 16:32:33 UTC
Was there even a mention about the future of WiS at fanfest?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#364 - 2014-05-12 16:35:43 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

I'm sure you meant this sarcastically, but it is much more likely to be literally true than not. There is absolutely no reason so suspect any assets in Trinity2/CARBON would be portable to the UT engine or back, they are not built on one another or derivative in any way.


No, I just meant that assets used in Legion or whatever could be used for a non-interesting WiS environment or something.

I dunno, like I said, what brought me in here was not what I seem to end up talkin about.

Im sure you know more about all this non spaceship stuff than I do, so Ill just follow your lead on this one.

Im sure I cant have an Electron Bomb in either anyway lol

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#365 - 2014-05-12 16:36:54 UTC
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:
Was there even a mention about the future of WiS at fanfest?


I have it on good authority that WiS was mentioned in and around some of the bathrooms.





☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#366 - 2014-05-12 23:07:47 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
I am pretty sure EVE has been put in maintenance mode, e.g. no more expansions, just fixes. I am really looking forward to being proven wrong. Please prove me wrong.
It's about reiteration but they have been working on new stuff. Player built gates and uncharted solar systems, deep space exploration etc. Part of the five year plan. Reiteration and maintenance mode are two different things. You don't see all the new stuff going in or something? Only a Jita 4-4 doubler would miss it all. Or someone that just logs in once a month to update the skill que.


Let's review the status 6 months after the next expansion, as we know that is going to happen...
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#367 - 2014-05-12 23:16:00 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:

Webvan wrote:
If anything, the FPS is the future of any bipedal development in EVE, to whatever extent.


Well duh

That's the main reason to have WiS in the first place

Welcome to where the rest of us got to 18 months ago

Khanh'rhh wrote:

CARBON is CCP's umbrella term for their entire technology infrastructure - trinity, destiny and the cluster database code, but also their name for the 3D engine that powers avatar gameplay from a marketing POV.


It's one of the things that makes this discussion a mess, a lot of the terms either have double meanings (such as the case with Carbon), or different implications when spoken by different people (for example, to some WiS means the Incarna interpretation of avatar play, while others use it to mean any and all future avatar gameplay in EvE), which can cause two people with fairly similar views to argue for pages.

Personally, I believe there is a future for Avatar play in a different format, somewhere down the line, when the time is right, when there is a clear plan and purpose to it, and in a matter that doesn't screw EvE again. But I am adamant that the Incarna iteration is dead, shall remain dead, and anything using even elements of it should get two put in the back of the head, just to be sure.


I concur. To me WiS is Walk in Stations, Structures and Spaceships coupled with missions, looting/hacking and avatar/other things shooting. I am not into the bar, dancing crap or even the casino stuff.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#368 - 2014-05-12 23:18:40 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:


Well duh

That's the main reason to have WiS in the first place

Welcome to where the rest of us got to 18 months ago
Uh no, completely different. The FPS runs off Unreal Engine, it's an actual game. WiS is 'walking' the catwalk to show off all your Noble Exchange junk. As we know WiS or Carbon failed at anything really usable.


I disagree, WiS has to be a lot more than showing off a dress. The dress is a cosmetic item, just like showing the turret on the ship. No real value.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#369 - 2014-05-12 23:20:23 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:


1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?


If its not spaceship related then my answer is no, if you want running around then go play Dust or wait for Legion, then you can do all the running around you want :P
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#370 - 2014-05-12 23:29:30 UTC
Cypherous wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:


1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?


If its not spaceship related then my answer is no, if you want running around then go play Dust or wait for Legion, then you can do all the running around you want :P


If DUST is pew pew in stations, I don't mind.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#371 - 2014-05-12 23:32:50 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Cypherous wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:


1. Are there other players with ballz to commit to WiS development?
2. CCP do you have the ballz to make WiS?


If its not spaceship related then my answer is no, if you want running around then go play Dust or wait for Legion, then you can do all the running around you want :P


If DUST is pew pew in stations, I don't mind.


They might add a station map one day but its about all you're going to get especially after CCP canned the WoD MMO which would have been the groundwork :P
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#372 - 2014-05-13 00:53:23 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:


I'm sure you meant this sarcastically, but it is much more likely to be literally true than not. There is absolutely no reason so suspect any assets in Trinity2/CARBON would be portable to the UT engine or back, they are not built on one another or derivative in any way.
Even something as basic as textures will have a completely different way of being mipmapped, let alone any alpha-blends used to support surface effects, which we know CCP were creating from scratch in CARBON.
Not to mention all the design decisions you make with the current tools you have in mind, which will need to be completely re-created if you even try to do a 1-for-1 port.
One amusing example is league of legends - pretty much everything in the game which is a spawnable effect is made out of minions, that they stack and change the size of. On top of creating some dumb interactions, if they ever wanted to port the game into an independent engine/environment they would need to basically re-make the whole game from the ground up, since silly things like that won't port.

Can we just stop with the "just copy and paste!" nonsense, please.

Well I'm not speaking of total integration like that, I think I mentioned that. There have been games that use different engines in one game, such as for like james bond: nightfire, using Goldsource engine for the FPS part of the game and the need for speed engine for the car sequences. Also MoH (UE3 + Frostbite). As for tools, they are working on new tools, which is all I know about that, just new tools.

And like they said in that future of WiS thread, the avatar play, they will be wearing suits. That means those assets are not needed and they probably had been batting around ideas of the FPS engine one day. Chances are they have thought long and hard about the eventual PC release of Dust/the FPS once the 1yr contract was up for SONY exclusiveness. Just laying out the possibilities, piecing it together from what little we know.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#373 - 2014-05-13 17:35:48 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
I am pretty sure EVE has been put in maintenance mode, e.g. no more expansions, just fixes. I am really looking forward to being proven wrong. Please prove me wrong.
It's about reiteration but they have been working on new stuff. Player built gates and uncharted solar systems, deep space exploration etc. Part of the five year plan. Reiteration and maintenance mode are two different things. You don't see all the new stuff going in or something? Only a Jita 4-4 doubler would miss it all. Or someone that just logs in once a month to update the skill que.


Well I am of the opinion that as far as CCP is concerned Eve is a finished game, as evidenced by the fact that we're moving from two expansions per year to 6 weekly releases.

These releases will probably add in the odd deployable or two, a couple of ship skins and some tweaks here or there, but the grand days of gameplay enhancing and game changing expansions are over as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong, I still expect to see nice stuff come as a result of the new point releases but the Golden Age has definately ended.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#374 - 2014-05-13 21:32:15 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Webvan wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
I am pretty sure EVE has been put in maintenance mode, e.g. no more expansions, just fixes. I am really looking forward to being proven wrong. Please prove me wrong.
It's about reiteration but they have been working on new stuff. Player built gates and uncharted solar systems, deep space exploration etc. Part of the five year plan. Reiteration and maintenance mode are two different things. You don't see all the new stuff going in or something? Only a Jita 4-4 doubler would miss it all. Or someone that just logs in once a month to update the skill que.


Well I am of the opinion that as far as CCP is concerned Eve is a finished game, as evidenced by the fact that we're moving from two expansions per year to 6 weekly releases.

These releases will probably add in the odd deployable or two, a couple of ship skins and some tweaks here or there, but the grand days of gameplay enhancing and game changing expansions are over as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong, I still expect to see nice stuff come as a result of the new point releases but the Golden Age has definately ended.


This is silly, really silly. How blinkered do you need to be to have not seen that CCP have a multi-year vision for Eve, which includes the enormous proposed changes of "make everything destroyable" and player-built stargates, and the rest of it? If they pull off half of it, Eve will change more in the next 5 years than it has in the past 10.

The quicker release cycle != point (maintenance) releases. Maybe look at the presentations instead of reading the crib-notes?

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#375 - 2014-05-13 21:57:03 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:


Well I am of the opinion that as far as CCP is concerned Eve is a finished game, as evidenced by the fact that we're moving from two expansions per year to 6 weekly releases.

These releases will probably add in the odd deployable or two, a couple of ship skins and some tweaks here or there, but the grand days of gameplay enhancing and game changing expansions are over as far as I can see.

Don't get me wrong, I still expect to see nice stuff come as a result of the new point releases but the Golden Age has definately ended.
EVE is Dieing™


I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Haruka Itsumi
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#376 - 2014-05-13 22:26:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruka Itsumi
Quote:
EVE is Dieing™


"dying" ffs and NO

WiS in a nutshell:

Walking hype before log in -> WSAD the char in any station -> see some avatars here and there -> walk around and see basically nothing happening -> check Station window for an outside gorgeous look for max 1 min ->get bored -> back to space business and pew pew.

WiS is a dumb concept for EVE-Online and not at all related. A sandbox that would begin to revolve around drinking quafe and head-shooting some guy in station would probably become a space MOD for Second Life.
Ray Kyonhe
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#377 - 2014-05-13 23:03:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Kyonhe
Haruka Itsumi wrote:
A sandbox that would begin to revolve around drinking quafe and head-shooting some guy in station would probably become a space MOD for Second Life.

And why is it necessarily a bad thing? The world of New Eden definetly lacks some diversity (it's just a giant definition of "copy&paste" idiom). It's hard to just make yourself forget about it and focus your eyes on shiny ships models all the time.. especially when you always keep your camera zoomed out - to enshure you have a decent situational awareness - to such a distance that you can't see them anymore.

A bunch of custom made structure here and there, a lounge at the station with some games to kill time while waiting for this blob to dissolve - those won't displace these precious shiny spaceships of yours, but will rather smooth the corners to fit current gameplay elements tighter.

Survey/voting system inbuilt to the game client: link_Reforming corp and taxation system: link_New PvE content (reward collective gameplay): link
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#378 - 2014-05-13 23:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Haruka Itsumi wrote:
Quote:
EVE is Dieing™
"dying" ffs and NO
EVE is Dying? no it's not. 'EVE is Dieing™' I think you miss the point, officer Spelling Blink

Haruka Itsumi wrote:

WiS is a dumb concept for EVE-Online and not at all related. A sandbox that would begin to revolve around drinking quafe and head-shooting some guy in station would probably become a space MOD for Second Life.
No not really, the execution was dumb, what they developed it for and how they did it, for why, the resources and time required, just lame. Avatar play has been in most internet spaceship games. But CCP's intention was horrible. They needed to go home and rethink their life.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#379 - 2014-05-14 00:06:14 UTC
Ray Kyonhe wrote:
Haruka Itsumi wrote:
A sandbox that would begin to revolve around drinking quafe and head-shooting some guy in station would probably become a space MOD for Second Life.

And why is it necessarily a bad thing? The world of New Eden definetly lacks some diversity (it's just a giant definition of "copy&paste" idiom). It's hard to just make yourself forget about it and focus your eyes on shiny ships models all the time.. especially when you always keep your camera zoomed out - to enshure you have a decent situational awareness - to such a distance that you can't see them anymore.

A bunch of custom made structure here and there, a lounge at the station with some games to kill time while waiting for this blob to dissolve - those won't displace these precious shiny spaceships of yours, but will rather smooth the corners to fit current gameplay elements tighter.

The same argument can be made for including a Nascar simulator.

All this "tell me why not!" bad-logic needs to realise it's covering for "tell me why they should" - the compelling argument for which has yet to be given.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#380 - 2014-05-14 00:29:58 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

The same argument can be made for including a Nascar simulator.

All this "tell me why not!" bad-logic needs to realise it's covering for "tell me why they should" - the compelling argument for which has yet to be given.
Certainly not for gambling minigames. We have our ideas of what WiS should have been, and CCP had theirs. That was the whole deadlock back then, CCP disconnected from the game community and what they the players wanted out of it, CCP off to chase ways to increase revenue and focus on that above game-play. It's what every emergent f2p game had been doing, sacrificing what could be really fun game-play improvements for things that are simply designed to lure the players like cattle to the in-game RMT shop, revolving development around that.

People have plenty of ideas, at least for the few good ideas, but that wasn't what old CCP was about at the time, they lost direction. They implemented something like EnB had then took the path that SWG did and which ultimately destroyed that game; disconnect from the community. It became an issue of trust, and a black eye for any real substantial support for avatar play in EVE. Like has been said, they bit off more than they could chew, and the system they created to take full advantage of RMT harmed the spaceship development of the game which is a no-no.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12