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[Kronos] Mordu's Legion

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JEFFRAIDER
THIGH GUYS
#261 - 2014-05-12 20:55:39 UTC
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#262 - 2014-05-12 20:58:09 UTC
Sascha Naskingar wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Sascha Naskingar wrote:
Suitonia wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
So at first look the Garmur is as fast as an interceptor, deals more dps than an assaultfrig while still having the same basedefenses ( without T2 resists (?)). Also able to scram while out of scramrange (what might be a way bigger OP bonus than the much debated 90% webs).
So pretty much the only way to kill it is to send a dramiel out to catch it and then someone else to actually win the fight.
This thing will shut down any FW pvp while it´s in system and I guess the AT teams are already getting sweaty palms and probably wet pants).
Actually it feels like the weightclass of some old AT second places besides the cap.


This was my honest first opinion too. But if you take a closer look at the stats, specifically the capacitor and the lock range stats. I actually think that these ships are balanced, or maybe even vulnerable. All of these ships have the worst capacitor regen per second in the game compared to their counterparts.

The NOOBSHIPS have almost the same cap regen per second as the Mordus battleship does. (Again, these may be an error made by CCP Rise, but it's looking more like it's an intentional part of the balancing).



I'm sorry, but i'm pretty sure your maths is out on this, from what i can work out the Garmur actually has the same base capacitor and more regen than a Fed Navy Comet, likewise the BS has better cap regen than a domi navy, so it really isnt as bad as you think it is.


I was basing it on the cap per second figures that CCP rise put in the thread.


Which is in the same format as they have done in every ballancing post to date, the way they lay it out is confusing if you dont know what you're looking at.

Look at the pirate ship reballancing posts here in F&I and you'll see that these have better cap regen than half the other pirate faction ships.

The ingame figure for the cap recharge on the garmur (in the ship info) would be 195.12


Yes, thank you. I can see where I was wrong now. I was confused with the lack of recharge time listed.

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Bagehi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#263 - 2014-05-12 20:59:07 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Holy crap...dat frig and cruiser dps... you'll be doing upwards of 300 with the frig, .


Actually rockets (the highest DPS from frig based missiles) is only about 170 dps


Hmm...I think I will revise my numbers somewhat. 200-220 dps seems more accurate. But I am right about that cruiser. The dps is going to be frightening on it.


http://i.imgur.com/nGNLCqr.png

I was over on the DPS by a bit, its pretty low, the cruiser should be around the other cruisers in the 7-800 range, lower than some t1 vanilla cruisers but nearly the same as some of the other pirate factions, below a few hacs, above a few others.

Not using t2 ammo on t2 rockets?

Unless you are shooting a cruiser hull or bigger, no.
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#264 - 2014-05-12 20:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
Barghest with T2 torpedo launchers, faction torpedoes, and 4x faction damage ballistic controls does exactly 1337 1170 cold missile DPS

...welcome aboard why not 8 launchers! WHY

Seriously, that's actually VERY conservative damage output compared to what I was expecting from a "fast, skirmish" ship. Less DPS than the old Raven Navy Issue? And here I was praying for a torpedo Vindicator...

Doubling the damage bonus on the Barghest would not go amiss.

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epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#265 - 2014-05-12 20:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I'm just going to throw this out there for discussion... Barghest loses 1 launcher in exchange for a +50% missile damage bonus (9 effective launchers vs. 8.75) and gains another low slot, so 7H-6M-7L.

BARGHEST
Caldari Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to missile damage
Gallente Battleship Bonus per level: 10% bonus to warp scrambler and warp disruptor range
Role Bonus: 200% bonus to missile velocity (50% penalty to missile flight time)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 6M, 7L(+1); 0 turrets, 6(-1) launchers
Fittings: 11600 PWG, 700 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 11200 / 8750 / 8100
Capacitor (amount / cap/sec) : 6100 / 5.28
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 148 / .098 / 98467000 / 13.38s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 76km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 29
Signature radius: 370


That does sound nicer, is there a typo though? do you mean +1 MEDIUM? Cannot really see the need for another low? maybe I'm missing a trick here.
But I still will buy the ship as it is,
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#266 - 2014-05-12 21:01:02 UTC
0/10

another caldari+gallente line
they look stupid
kiting is dumb
faster missiles are good, but something you should be putting on all slow missiles, not a ship bonus
tackle range bonuses are horrible and broken, please stop
ZecsMarquis
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#267 - 2014-05-12 21:08:41 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
Barghest with T2 torpedo launchers, faction torpedoes, and 4x faction damage ballistic controls does exactly 1337 1170 cold missile DPS

...welcome aboard why not 8 launchers! WHY

Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus.
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#268 - 2014-05-12 21:10:33 UTC
Sieonigh wrote:
id like to address a big issue regarding the cruiser.

the ORTHRUS's CPU is way too low.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/c791444b0670a52f63e9d67b2405c167/tumblr_n5h7q5q7TM1sp6rhco1_1280.jpg

^screen cap of the ship put into EVE HQ and fitted up.

i had to put 3 CPU mods for the fit to be usable, i don't anyone will want to use this with level of compromise in fitting.


the OP has been changed, it was 325 and is now 460. disregard above


CPU's still on the rough side of ****** though.

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Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#269 - 2014-05-12 21:16:51 UTC
This is going to be very interesting. Those missiles are so fast they would tend to reduce the usual disadvantage of missiles; that is, delayed damage. Even with the flight time penalty, they still get a range increase. I think they will also make good snipers.

Their look is really nice too, quite original.

I'm quite curious about the BPC drops... That could make them somehow easy to get if you're lucky :)
marVLs
#270 - 2014-05-12 21:17:32 UTC
ZecsMarquis wrote:

Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus.


We have Golem and RNI with application bonus, i would like to get true pirate battleship with pure dps, something like 1,8 - 2k pimped dps (5% imps, 4 faction BCUs). Then it will be used in PVP and PVE
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#271 - 2014-05-12 21:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Iam Widdershins
ZecsMarquis wrote:
Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus.

I say let the damage application sort itself out, just make the raw damage really high. Practically every other missile ship has an application bonus already, and halved flight time on +50% range missiles is already pretty nifty. All this ship needs is some earth-shaking damage output to make it truly relevant.

1080 DPS with faction torpedoes is not 'really high'.

If we're not gonna experiment with fancy-looking new rare ships, then what with? 10% damage/level is still very reasonable.

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Bam Stroker
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#272 - 2014-05-12 21:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Bam Stroker
I feel like there's a missed opportunity here to add more flavour and make these ships truly unique with an additional (or alternative) bonus:

A significant reduction to sig radius.

I know that doesn't sound very sexy but stay with me here...

  • Their appearance is clearly inspired by real-word stealth technology (go compare these hulls to a B-2 stealth bomber). Smaller sig radius would play into their aesthetic.

  • From what I understand, Mordu's Legion are supposed to have an affinity with ECM. Well they're not getting an ECM bonus per se, but you could say from a lore standpoint that perhaps Mordu's Legion have access to "sophisticated sensor countermeasure packages that mask the electronic profile of their ships", or something like that. One could say that this explanation for their sig reduction is related to the realm of electronic warfare.

  • An inherent sig radius reduction would make them take longer to be locked, make them harder to probe and reduce the damage application of incoming fire, particularly from oversized weapons. All desirable traits and it would be a unique advantage among shield tanking ships.

Now, as to whether this bonus is an "as well as" or "instead of" to their current bonus to scram range is one for the number crunchers and peanut gallery to decide, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to add this sig radius bonus and then finesse the numbers to come up with a truly unique pirate race whose bonuses reflect the design & origin(s) of the hulls and suit the lore of the faction while also being a powerful presence on the battlefield and balanced within the arena of pirate ships.

[edit] I've just started playing with these ships in EFT and it turns out they already have a significantly reduced sig radius in addition to stronger sensor strength than comparable ships which I hadn't noticed before. eg:

Raven - 410m sig / 22 Gravimetric sensor strength
Scorpion - 480m sig / 24 Gravimetric sensor strength
Barghest - 370m sig / 29 Gravimetric sensor strength

So the ships kind of have the stats I was agitating for, they're just not being touted as part of the unique qualities of the hull. Might still be cool to go nuts and bring the sig radius down to BC size though (eg. 295m for a Drake), or at least "feature" the decreased sig and increased sensor strength as part of their role bonus.

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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#273 - 2014-05-12 21:27:22 UTC
Iam Widdershins wrote:
ZecsMarquis wrote:
Overall pretty disappointed with the battleship stats. No application bonus hurts it big time, even for cruise though not as bad. I'll buy one and when it pops I will not buy another. Hopefully we get a revision on this. Nerf the RoF, give it one less launcher do what you have to do but it needed a damage application bonus.

I say let the damage application sort itself out, just make the raw damage really high. Practically every other missile ship has an application bonus already, and halved flight time on +50% range missiles is already pretty nifty. All this ship needs is some earth-shaking damage output to make it truly relevant.

1080 DPS with faction torpedoes is not 'really high'.


shame they need to reload every 5 seconds and you can only carry about 20 torpedoes in your cargo
Xequecal
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#274 - 2014-05-12 21:32:53 UTC
1. That frigate is more overpowered than the pre-nerf Dramiel. Holy ****. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to take the Crow, add a fitting slot, increase the missile damage by 33%, give it omni-damage potential, and then give it a 14km scram?

2. Why would I ever fly that battleship when the Rattlesnake exists?

3. Please add more agents. The current Mordus agents are in the MoA home system, with VFK-IV being 3 jumps away. You'll have dozens to hundreds of hostiles to deal with trying to mission here, no matter what corp you're in.
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#275 - 2014-05-12 21:43:42 UTC
Looks very exciting!

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#276 - 2014-05-12 21:43:57 UTC
Xequecal wrote:
1. That frigate is more overpowered than the pre-nerf Dramiel. Holy ****. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to take the Crow, add a fitting slot, increase the missile damage by 33%, give it omni-damage potential, and then give it a 14km scram?

2. Why would I ever fly that battleship when the Rattlesnake exists?

3. Please add more agents. The current Mordus agents are in the MoA home system, with VFK-IV being 3 jumps away. You'll have dozens to hundreds of hostiles to deal with trying to mission here, no matter what corp you're in.


CCP actually seriously thinks that light missiles are not overpowered
Esteban Dragonovic
Saidusairos Nebula Concern
#277 - 2014-05-12 21:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Esteban Dragonovic
These seem to be, how to say, a bit simple. That's not necessarily a bad thing, if they fit a particular role very well, but as you guys seemed to go on and on at fanfest about how "Pirate Factions break the rules" I don't see that kind of interesting complexity here. The warp scram range bonus does actually play into that reasonably well, but the missile bonus feels kind of lackluster, considering that missiles should really be roughly in those velocities in the first place. I would rather not have a ship line only be good because its the only place where that weapon system actually works.

Perhaps playing with some sort of ecm or sig reduction bonus would liven things up a bit (hopefully not making it too overpowered). Of course arguing about on paper stats is useless if we don't have a first hand feel of how this thing is gonna fly. This needs to be on sisi yesterday so we can see how well these ships work hands on.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#278 - 2014-05-12 21:50:20 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Xequecal wrote:
1. That frigate is more overpowered than the pre-nerf Dramiel. Holy ****. Who the hell thought it was a good idea to take the Crow, add a fitting slot, increase the missile damage by 33%, give it omni-damage potential, and then give it a 14km scram?

2. Why would I ever fly that battleship when the Rattlesnake exists?

3. Please add more agents. The current Mordus agents are in the MoA home system, with VFK-IV being 3 jumps away. You'll have dozens to hundreds of hostiles to deal with trying to mission here, no matter what corp you're in.


CCP actually seriously thinks that light missiles are not overpowered


Which is hilarious given their stance that heavy missiles are overpowered.

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Nano Sito
#279 - 2014-05-12 21:50:47 UTC
The battleship sucks.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#280 - 2014-05-12 21:55:42 UTC
The Barghest starts to look really lackluster when compared to the other pirate BSes.

BARGHEST: 8.75 effective launchers (at max skill), 50m3 drones, 20 total slots.
NIGHTMARE: 10 effective guns (at any skill), 75m3 drones, 19 total slots.
BHAALGORN: 8 effective guns (at any skill), 100m3 drones, 19 total slots.
RATTLESNAKE: 7.5 effective launchers (at max skill, kin/therm only), 125m3 bonused drones, 19 total slots.
VINDICATOR: 11 effective guns (at any skill), 125m3 drones, 20 total slots.
MACHARIAL: 11.7 effective guns (at max skill), 100m3 drones, 20 total slots.

Most direct comparison seems to be the vindicator or the macharial, at 20 slots.

So why does the Barghest lag behind both of them in both effective launchers AND drone bandwidth? What's the deal here?

On an unrelated note, why do the nightmare/bhaalgorn only get 19 slots...