EVE General Discussion

*kuch the moon landing is fake kuch*

I pledge one trillion Rhesbux for some wizard pants.

I'll repeat what I said earlier



The arguements about what did or did not cause the summer of rage are always going to be conflicting and misleading. There were a lot of factors that caused it, and everyones reasons for joining the protest will be different. Honestly, after this time, any arguement about what did or did not cause it will always be self-serving and rife with selective memory. Yes, WIS was one of the reasons, but no, it wasn't it all. Every single part of Incarna and the events around it contributed.

18 months - Set the stage by creating an undercurrent of neglect in EvE, and creating an expectation of WiS ("we better get something worth the loss of 18 months of EvE developement")
The one room - Showed a massive under-performance in realising the "dream"
No meaningful gameplay - Showing a complete lack of listening to the playerbases concerns over WiS
NeX - The introduction of the much-hated microtransactions, and showing CCP fundamentally ignored playerbase desires in WiS (player-made clothes was the one most-talked about feature).
Melted Graphics Cards - Evoked a scare that a vast number of EvE players were about to be excluded through a huge technological jump
Ship Spinning - Minor, but showed a detachment from the playerbase
Monacles - Showed a fundamental misunderstanding of the term "micro"
$1000 jeans - Displayed a fundamental dissonance between the players and developers
Greed is Good - Showed a corporate direction that was a radical departure from what people expected
The Memo - Showed a disdain at the management level for players opinions on the matter

Any one of these things in isolation could have been forgiven... there would have been grumbles, but it wouldn't have been the summer of rage. "18 months" could have been forgiven if WiS had appeared as more than one cupboard. The one cupboard could have been forgiven if it hadn't been for the 18 months prior. As much as some hate microtransactions, fundamentally, a non "gold-ammo" solution like the NeX was quite a neat choice, had it not been for the fact it killed the hope of player-made clothing. The monacles could have gone by with barely a comment if there had been some cheap items on the NeX. The $1000 jeans could have been taken for the joke it was meant to be if not for everything else. The melting graphics cards might have been less an issue had ship spinning been left in, or had they prioritised getting more station out rather than shining the one office to razor-sharp detail. Even "Greed is Good" might have been taken for a hypothetical (especially given some of its articles sounded tongue in cheek), and not faced with so much rage had it not been for the Monacle and Jeans, and the surprise appearance of the NeX. The Memo might have just seemed like a "let the initial storm pass, and we can then assess the true opinion" if not for all the other signs of complete ignorance on the part of the devs to understand the problems.

The point is, everything played in to the storm, and WiS is tarnished forever by association. While WiS is intrinsically tied to the NeX, and any developement will require being bought with the blood of another 18 months, it can have no hope of being warmly recieved.

I have said it several times - WiS only hope is to be completely ripped out, and the NeX removed and never spoke of again. That might cleanse WiS of its associations. Dig out the old ambulation files, or hell, approach it through Legion. Quite basically, if they ever want to approach WiS again, they have to pay attension to the mistakes of Incarna - No neglection of EvE in order to facilitate it, meaningful gameplay is paramount, manage players expectations, don't hope to dazzle us with glitz to disguise the lack of content, and microtransactions are no substitute for gameplay options. I think that is more what the anti-WiS arguers want to get across. Just "giving them another developement cycle" is just not going to happen without massive caveats, and a threat that next time the game wont survive such a massive faliure.

Even Aralyns great post misses one other fundamental point and that is that most of the items also came with PVP buffs which ofc you could buy with Plex from the comfort of your own quarters and then bling around stations acting the helicopter having never even undocked to earn the right.

Players could also see how much effort CCP had put into the clothes rather than the game (even the CQ itself being just one room) and combined with the microtransactions there was a very real danger that more effort in the future would be put into WiS than FiS.

The Statue Bashers saved our game and reminded CCP about the EVE brand. If the station dwellers want to earn their swagger then is should be done fighting in space rather than in a store.

If by "caved into pressure" you mean "completed work that was almost ready to ship in Incarna" then, er, yes?

Are you still of the belief CCP threw millions of dollars and 2 years out the window to fix a problem that didn't exist? Again, in either version of your narrative CCP could/would continue with WiS minus the micro-transactions.

Ohhhhhhh..

Wait. It's almost like they didn't do that because no one wanted it, huh?

I guess when CCP said "We are giving you what you want, a re-focus on spaceships"
What they really meant was "We refuse to work on the anticipated WiS features for literally no reason, and will instead work on spaceships"

And I also assume the cheers from the crowd at that point were boos that CCP had edited with some wizardry to make it seem like people didn't want WiS.

I guess all the forum posts celebrating the 180 were just CCP posting on alts to cover up for the fact the players were outraged CCP had abandoned WiS.
As Rhes said, the people who actually want WiS are a small (very noisy) minority.

Case in point: this thread. It's reached 14 pages of A WHOLE TWO of you trying to perform some revisionist history and drum up interest.

Because most of us WiS enthusiasts have already given up on the concept for the time beeing... the only ones that still feel the need to comment (or rather shout down) any meantion of it are people that fear their beloved spaceship game becomes some of sort pedo-furry-whatever paradise.

But, guess what, WiS will come in one form or the other, sooner or later. Why? Because it is still part of CCPs vision of a complete EVE universe.

I can't bolster of such a good financial state as topicstarter, but I could donate a PLEX for it (As if subscription fee isn't enough, shame on you, CCP!)

I agree completely, though some of the posters in this and other threads do their best to lay the entire blame for the summer rage at the door of avatar content in eve. That's something that I like to point out as factually incorrect.

I have said in other posts that I hope Legion brings in some meaningful gameplay that in some way bridges the gap between what we have now and eventual avatar content. I certainly don't expect CCP to drop everything and develop WIS in a totally new direction that is contrary to the current plans.

I do support avatar content and look forward to the day that it arrives fully in eve (probably via occulus rift or something similar) and I accept that it's a long way off, given how the competition is doing though when it comes to creating meaningful gameplay with ever more sophisticated game engines and better graphics, I think that avatar gameplay is something that CCP will have to do whether it's in an entirely separate game that links to the Eve spaceship game or directly within the client I'm not sure. Given how development is going at the moment with the other games I imagine that it will be a separate thing with a shared login.

I will say that many of the WIS supporters do feel that the anger over the nex store as well as the other factors mentioned in your post was hijacked by a vocal minority that want eve to be only about spaceships. I share this sentiment but will happily change my mind if I am mistaken.

Anyhow CCP don't see the future as a company that only offers the public internet spaceships and thank god, because they've got something really special here in the form of the Eve online universe becoming a full sci fi simulator and I support that as every company needs multiple sources of revenue and needs to appeal to more than a narrow demographic of people that like internet spaceships. there's nothing wrong with getting the twitch space combat enthusiasts or the fps crowd to enter the Eve universe.

It's big enough for everybody.

No, there's a whole Two of you trying to shout down any support for WIS.