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Rorqual - I missed the fanfest stream.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#21 - 2014-05-04 18:27:22 UTC
Kasife Vynneve wrote:
Maybe when the core is running its has an effect like s POS force field for nearby industrials (or even exclusive to ORE vessels)

Not the first time that has been suggested.

But CCP hates force fields. They introduce complex code for interaction, basically exceptions to the rules.
cyniska
Harring Holings
#22 - 2014-05-06 00:18:54 UTC
Maybe a kind of bubble around it that makes Ore ships immune to ewar, that way you could warp all the barges away. Drawback is that the rorq cant move or the rorq is not immune.

In big fleets of 20+ exhumers it might be worth it. 2 bil isk rorq ≈ 10 hulks. But it feels like the hulks tank might be to weak to survive anyway. Straight

Bubble that blocks cynos?
xPredat0rz
Project.Nova
The Initiative.
#23 - 2014-05-06 01:58:07 UTC
Or maybe they want to make a belt striper varient that once sieged eats rocks. Rorqual is stuck in the belt for 5 minutes for insane ore striping but at risk to **** killing it.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#24 - 2014-05-06 02:52:36 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
350125GO wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane


They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.

tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane



People put 0.6b and 1.3b ships in belts semi-regularly (Orca, Charon), so putting a 2.3b Rorqual in a belt wouldn't be out of the question if it gave sufficient advantages to the fleet it was in.

If it were part Veldenaught (with mining bonuses), past ore compresser, part mining foreman link provider and part hauler (with a cargo bay for compressed ore only), then I could see people willingly fielding it sieged in a belt. Especially if you have the capacity to counter-escalate if you are dropped.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#25 - 2014-05-06 03:07:22 UTC
cyniska wrote:

Bubble that blocks cynos?


Cyno blocker module that prevents remote reps (Like a HIC bubble) as well as no industrial core any more would be an interesting combination. Could then warp it out at any time, you know your fleet won't get hot dropped on grid, but if you don't pay attention you can still be tackled and a cyno lit off grid or 200km away on grid and engaged.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#26 - 2014-05-06 06:35:31 UTC
im sorry,

I really have a hard time understanding why on earth are dev's so head strong at putting this capital ship at risk, if they hate pos force fields so much why on earth have them? ccp are you just trying your best to feed your friends kills?

the rorqual should be the king of industry yet they're constantly thinking of ways of gimping it.. you know something fozzie.. give it fighter drone support since you're head strong about it being involved in pvp while killing rocks.. or how about you also provide with anti-ewar support to entire mining ops fleets, anti-cloak in the system ( oh yeah you just love your afk cloaky friends yet wont do anything about that one how odd).. and while you're at it give the rorqual the power to fight and take out up to dreadnaught level cannons? how about that one fozz-man..

you want it in belts so much as for the tractor beam? seriously how often is the powerful tractor beam used? I don't use it at all.. its not a main requirement in my ops.. I sure as hell will not take it into a belt while you allow a small size ship to drop +25 or more ships on me.. but again you obviously don't know about fairness and level playing ground.

this is all a bad idea, no wonder folks are getting rid of their assets and prepping to leave.

honestly ccp get with the program and make the rorqual the most powerful beast and worthy capital ship one would want to even invest in and use and place in belts.. but this constant direction of .. everything should be at risk. all the while allowing other major broken ships get cheap kills is rather disturbing. just my and only my opinion not like it matters.

rorqual - major bonus to EHP major! Major!
- huge increase to drone bay allowing fighters - +20 yeah I said it so what
- major bonus to killing rocks and supporting all mining ships in the op +200% to all defenses in fleets.. make killers actually afraid of F!'ing with a miner ( doubt this though since folks love attacking things that cant fight back)
- Anti-ewar, Cloaking (system-wide) features
- increase navigation systems -- so umm how do you plan to allow this fat beast to warp away from danger?? see guys why are you even thinking about this.

I just don't get it ccp, you're killing this ship even more.. oh by the way... why are you even thinking about the rorq in the belt.. what the hell about the orca?? whats it's purpose then?? good lord all mighty wtf??
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-05-06 10:49:51 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Stuff


Don't see how that's going to work. If I can't get safe in the time it takes a red to warp from a gate in an adjacent system to me, which in general I can't with a Rorqual, then I'm not going to put it into belt.

I'm definitely not going to siege it either. I have no idea why it's got a tractor bonus. It's ore hold is pretty small all else considered. It's fleet hanger is pathetic. I can't empty a single full Mackinaw into it. It's good for giving nice mining bonuses and ore compression. That's all really.
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-05-06 19:30:06 UTC
Arronicus wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
350125GO wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
the buffs that would make it worth putting a rorqual in a belt would need to be insane


They'd be more likely to change it's role than to give it buffs.

tell me the role that involves putting a 2b capital ship in a belt that is not insane


When I did mining in 0.0 not too long ago, I used my rorqual for hauling, and I can assure you, it was worth quite a bit more than 2bil.

However, I'd never leave it just sitting there, boosting in belt or running tractor beams or any of the silliness CCP thinks they can convince people to do. They'd have to make some ridiculous changes if they want people to sit in belt in a rorqual, with the core deployed.



Yep. Warp it in, scoop 400m3 of ore, warp it straight back out.

NO ONE goes into siege mode in belt (well, I knew a guy... but we were in a dead end system 2 jumps from one of the main cap ship staging systems and there were always a dozen super carriers "on call" should things get ugly. AND, that is when belts had to be probed (which of course, takes WAY under 5 mins, so it wasn't much safety to the rorq)
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-05-06 19:43:45 UTC
Its role as an ore hauler was even gimped by the ability of freighters to drop enormous cans, then scoop them back up.

The freighter costs half as much and can move twice the ore.


I just don't know what CCP could do to make me siege my rorq in a rock cluster. We industrialists are notoriously risk averse.

NOTHING would bring the cloaky campers around faster than a rorq getting caught in a belt, and since there is NO DEFENSE to cloaky campers, hoping beyond hope that they stay away, is the #1 priority of null sec miners.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#30 - 2014-05-06 19:49:17 UTC
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Its role as an ore hauler was even gimped by the ability of freighters to drop enormous cans, then scoop them back up.

The freighter costs half as much and can move twice the ore.


I just don't know what CCP could do to make me siege my rorq in a rock cluster. We industrialists are notoriously risk averse.

NOTHING would bring the cloaky campers around faster than a rorq getting caught in a belt, and since there is NO DEFENSE to cloaky campers, hoping beyond hope that they stay away, is the #1 priority of null sec miners.



THIS! THIS! THIS!

yet for a very strange odd reason ccp avoids the cloaky problem cause it may hurt their friends feelings, so this entire idea of feeding them kills pretty much sums up the dev's true intention.. play eve, purchase expensive ships, we'll flip the script on you and help the killers pop the ship.. then pretend to call it fun.. then deny the mechanics are broken cause in the real world this and that hogwash comparison.

LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2014-05-06 20:05:55 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
LHA Tarawa wrote:
Its role as an ore hauler was even gimped by the ability of freighters to drop enormous cans, then scoop them back up.

The freighter costs half as much and can move twice the ore.


I just don't know what CCP could do to make me siege my rorq in a rock cluster. We industrialists are notoriously risk averse.

NOTHING would bring the cloaky campers around faster than a rorq getting caught in a belt, and since there is NO DEFENSE to cloaky campers, hoping beyond hope that they stay away, is the #1 priority of null sec miners.



THIS! THIS! THIS!

yet for a very strange odd reason ccp avoids the cloaky problem cause it may hurt their friends feelings, so this entire idea of feeding them kills pretty much sums up the dev's true intention.. play eve, purchase expensive ships, we'll flip the script on you and help the killers pop the ship.. then pretend to call it fun.. then deny the mechanics are broken cause in the real world this and that hogwash comparison.




Honestly, I don't think cloaky campers really get that many kills. Mainly it is used as a way to shut off all mining, and most ratting, in a solar system, with little to no effort.

If the cloaky camper had to reactivate the cloak every 15 minutes, so couldn't be afk for hours at a time, I wonder how much the online count would drop. Hundreds? Certainly not thousands.

I suspect there are far more ships lost to blue cyno than neut/red cloaky camper. Infiltration is still the FAR more effective means of getting kills, especially with the number of corps willing to accept newbs. I've been in a corp that had to fork over billions of ISK to repay blue losses because we let in a player that blue tackled or lit a cyno for a black ops strike.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#32 - 2014-05-06 21:59:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Updating my ideas, valued below 0.02 ISK. I don't expect these to be good ideas. Blink

With these changes, the Rorqual stands a chance to escape:
* EWAR immunity. You need a HIC or a bubble to prevent it from jumping out. [Blops-proof]
* At least Orca-level mining link bonus with the Industrial Core inactive. [Not self-pointed.]
* 50% reduction in Cynosural Field Generator duration. [The point of a cavalry is to extract.]

Give the Rorqual the ability to stand its ground:
* 7.5% bonus to fleet members' maximum structure hitpoints per level of Capital Industrial Ships.
* 100% bonus to drone hitpoints and damage per level of Capital Industrial Ships.
* 10% bonus to drone tracking per level of Capital Industrial Ships. [WAG]
* 20% bonus to drone MWD velocity per level of Capital Industrial Ships. [WAG]
* Increase the size of the drone bay. It needs to hold more drones (even with the HP bonus), and a variety of drones.

Give the Rorqual a reasonable chance of survival with the Industrial Core active:
* 75% bonus to hull resists. [My math may be wrong, but I was aiming for 90% with a DCU II.]
* 30% bonus to shield resists.
* 100% bonus to local shield boosting amount.
* 50% reduction to local shield booster capacitor use.
* Industrial Core cycle time reduced to one minute.
* Heavy water usage reduction, or elimination.
and
* 56% reprocessing facilities [2% better than an Intensive Reprocessing Array.]

Other:
* Additional high-slots: 3 mining links + capital tractor beam + capital shield transporter + cyno + utility.
* Expanded corporate hangar.
* Expanded ship hangar, or re-purposed for general ships.
* Expanded ore hangar.

Just throwing these out there:
* New module: Industrial Bridge Generator I. Can bridge: Industrial, Mining Frigate, Mining Barge, Exhumer, Transport, Freighter.
* Expanded fuel bay. [For bridging.]
The Rorqual is a mining fleet vessel, so it should be able to move mining fleets around.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#33 - 2014-05-06 22:37:58 UTC
first, i think removing the mining bonus from the industrial core altogether would go a long way to making these more usable in belts. just let them have the link bonus without going into siege mode. they don't have a combat role, so it makes little sense to encourage their deployment in harm's way. this also means a rorq pilot could be in belt, but be constantly aligned to a pos or station while still giving good bonuses and scooping cans at range.

secondly, i think the align time could be trimmed a bit, to help with some gtfo when uninvited guests show up.

finally, some type of EWAR immunity (as Tau mentioned above) or even extended range on an EMC burst would help in tight spots.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#34 - 2014-05-07 00:30:53 UTC
Iosue wrote:
first, i think removing the mining bonus from the industrial core altogether would go a long way to making these more usable in belts. just let them have the link bonus without going into siege mode. they don't have a combat role, so it makes little sense to encourage their deployment in harm's way. this also means a rorq pilot could be in belt, but be constantly aligned to a pos or station while still giving good bonuses and scooping cans at range.

secondly, i think the align time could be trimmed a bit, to help with some gtfo when uninvited guests show up.

finally, some type of EWAR immunity (as Tau mentioned above) or even extended range on an EMC burst would help in tight spots.



I disagree cause with that you're pretty much killing the orca's function. no removal of the indy core cause that takes the heart of the rorq out of it I mean really removal its only module? no hec no, although you touched up on it abit.. how come folks assume warping in that fat beast is just as fast as the AB/MWD 10s warp trick.. its not.. these fat boys/girls shouldn't even be close to a belt.

if they want it in a belt, then they should remove the restrictions and allow them in high sec.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#35 - 2014-05-07 03:14:29 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
I disagree cause with that you're pretty much killing the orca's function. no removal of the indy core cause that takes the heart of the rorq out of it I mean really removal its only module? no hec no, although you touched up on it abit.. how come folks assume warping in that fat beast is just as fast as the AB/MWD 10s warp trick.. its not.. these fat boys/girls shouldn't even be close to a belt.

if they want it in a belt, then they should remove the restrictions and allow them in high sec.


the orca still has plenty of function in hi sec. besides, i'm not advocating removal of the industrial core, i just don't think we need to have the link bonuses tied to the core. the core could still be used for compression, or possibly another role.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-05-07 12:53:43 UTC
No way I'll put a Rorq into a belt, even if the align time gets trimmed.
EvilIsMyName
Exploitation Industrial Group
#37 - 2014-05-07 13:28:14 UTC
Personally, I would like to see the Rorqual be able to fly in high sec, similar to jump freighters.

I think Tau had some great recommendations, but since CCP is removing the exclusive ability of ore compression from the Rorqual in Kronos, they should introduce a new series of Industrial Cores that would give the Rorqual the ability to do a variety of Industrial activities.

They could have a refining core, and a variety of manufacturing cores that would expand the ability and usage of the Rorqual.

I think I share everyones opinion that CCP's goal of having the Rorqual in belts is unrealistic, I can't imagine a change that could implore me to put my rorqual online in a belt. Even removing the ability to boost off-grid would just make me switch to an Orca for on-grid boosting.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#38 - 2014-05-07 15:31:41 UTC
The rumors I heard was that it will get huge offensive, defensive, and remote shield transfer bonuses in its deployed mode. A rorqual plus skiffs will be able to survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive, including completely tanking most light roaming gangs, and will have the drone firepower to "punch back" as Fozzie said of the new skiff. Gangs of Blops BS are going to want to have their hospital Sin with them.

This makes sense, as Fozzie did say in his presentation "you will WANT to put this in a belt."

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-05-07 16:22:26 UTC
Batelle wrote:
The rumors I heard was that it will get huge offensive, defensive, and remote shield transfer bonuses in its deployed mode. A rorqual plus skiffs will be able to survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive, including completely tanking most light roaming gangs, and will have the drone firepower to "punch back" as Fozzie said of the new skiff. Gangs of Blops BS are going to want to have their hospital Sin with them.

This makes sense, as Fozzie did say in his presentation "you will WANT to put this in a belt."



This does make sense - I wonder if they will go down the way where the real option might be to deploy multiple Rorqs (hmm... stacking mining bonuses when on grid?) Which would make the deployment of ginormous mining fleets a more calculate risk (rather than a gank me now situation!)

Tau Cabalander wrote:

* New module: Industrial Bridge Generator I. Can bridge: Industrial, Mining Frigate, Mining Barge, Exhumer, Transport, Freighter.
* Expanded fuel bay. [For bridging.]
The Rorqual is a mining fleet vessel, so it should be able to move mining fleets around.


This - is an excellent suggestion. Give mining fleets mobility and the ability to survive and you might just see them out there a bit more.
Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-05-07 17:06:37 UTC
Batelle wrote:
The rumors I heard was that it will get huge offensive, defensive, and remote shield transfer bonuses in its deployed mode. A rorqual plus skiffs will be able to survive long enough for reinforcements to arrive, including completely tanking most light roaming gangs, and will have the drone firepower to "punch back" as Fozzie said of the new skiff. Gangs of Blops BS are going to want to have their hospital Sin with them.

This makes sense, as Fozzie did say in his presentation "you will WANT to put this in a belt."


Survive what long enough? That's the problem with drops. You have no idea what's coming. Quite a few fly with both regular and covert cyno too. Could be a Titan nearby. Who knows.