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Just doing some quick math:

Say Abaddon materials costs 100mil. In a station say install cost is 10mil. I sell for 120mil for 10 mil profit.

Produced in a starbase I save 2% of the material = 98mil cost. Are we saying install costs are still 10mil? Or less?

Let's say that it's 0 (which it isn't). I sell for 120mil for 22mil profit.

It costs 400mil~ to run a large POS. At this reduction I need to sell 30 Abaddons in order to break even. That's 3bil of stock I have to shift before I can even think about making a profit (and the install cost isn't even right, so it's more in reality).

Firstly, are my calculations correct in theory? Secondly, do we think that 2% reduction for manufacturing at a POS is worth it? If the above is correct I'm thinking no.

In what month will summer expansion be implemented?

It's cool. The rate of changes being fired out here are so great, even I've missed one or two along the way.

Are we sure that unlimited slots are a good thing? From a lore perspective this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. There are not inifinite resources on a station/starbase and there's only so much space. Wouldn't an install cost based on % of lines running on a 28 day moving average be better?

The main reason you have a high sec POS is because of slot limitation. I can't really speculate on how players would be distributed because of infinite slots, but you hope that it'll mean players spread out. It could also mean that players cluster up near trade hubs due to the fact they can manufacture closer and the install costs are not high enough to warrant moving.

I think that if there were a finite number of slots, the implementation of Teams as a dynamic hourly rate for the job, plus the ability to sell starbase lines to the public would be fine. The current implementation creates quite a big problem if left as it is, and balancing starbases so they're still useful to industry in high sec is going to be hard.

For null sec, there would be player taxes for install costs and the ability to add more slots through modules. Time should be focused on allowing players to expand their outposts (or at least work on getting more than 1 outpost per system). The current implementation seems like a shortcut to an end that has not been realised correctly.

Yes but I was just giving an example on how much product you'd have to shift before making a profit on a large POS. I'm not saying that you'd only produce Abaddons (obviously you'd produce more and perhaps use research labs) but rather I'm suggesting that you'd have to shift 2bil of stuff just to cover the cost of the large POS fuel.

If we take the current system, the main reason you have a high sec POS is because the slots are limited and you can't do ME research anywhere. In other words, you HAVE to put one up if you want to make money from manufacturing in the long run - it's an overhead rather than a cost of production.

In the summer system, POSes become a factor in production costs and not an overhead since you don't NEED them (you can just use the stations instead for everything). Therefore the main reason you would want to have a POS is to be able to save a shitload of money from manufacturing. My question is: Is 2bil of product shifting worth the saving?

I never understood people trying to justify "lore" in this way. Does it make "lore" sense to have infinite storage in stations? (I wonder how much M3 Jita currently houses....

Personally I think infinite slots is a stupid idea because it creates more problems than it solves... but its not like we are going to get a choice on the matter.

>Manufacturing time bonuses

>Avoiding taxes

>2% reduction in costs



All of the above mean any decent industrialist will use a large POS, barring laziness. Together, ignoring them makes you really bad at math (also rather stupid).

Upon reflection I think I get the gist of CCP premise...

Someway or another the A.I. in POS structures all got lobotomized at the exact same instant so virtual workers are now required. Then mysteriously developed folding space technology but it only is applicable to manufacturing tooling and laboratories. Meanwhile back at the hall of absurdity.... People discovered you can use blueprints from inside containers but somehow forgot the method of using them remotely.

I suppose the expansion should be called "Paradox" or "Oxymoron"

For all the "supporting" information provided people would think to have some realistic constants. Seriously I put this on par with a caveman not being able to make a campfire building an ion based propulsion system.

Our previously infinite supply of minmatar slave workers, lifetime supplies of which were factored into the isk cost of starbase modules when being built, has now dried up.



We now have to hire much more expensive paid, educated labor.





Basically? **** your lore. Lore should never get in the way of gameplay. The expansions are about improving gameplay - lore revolves around them. Gameplay does not revolve around lore.

Seriously? I was addressing more of the issue of it not being logical than hollering it isn't lore so it is wrong. Anyway playing a game with a overly linear or non-existent storyline no matter the technical expertise involved in game play usually sucks after playing once. Counter point to that, a really good story can engage a player and increase replay value even if the mechanics are awkward. I only use lore in the context of the game making sense not specific operational game play.

Frankly speaking the expansion as proposed has very little in the way of improving game play. it doesn't overly break things and definitely playable. Overall it is not much than a more (subjectively) intuitive interface over a hack job of changing things to justify man-hours.

And wow, I didn't even need to insult or be profane amazing