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To reiterate, that's the play style I chose, sandbox is defined as such, you can do everything you want, no? Now, in terms of doing something wrong, perhaps, I almost always log everyday, but I only do a few missions a day on average. I don't do missions for LP, I don't do missions as fast as I can. I experiment on ships, and having more than 43 million sp on ships alone and without 1 sp on capital ships suggests that I fly almost every subcap. I haven't lost a ship in L3s nor L4s, and I only lost 1 in an L2 roughly 4 years back that i attributed to a freak lag spike.

So, tell me, am I doing things wrong? aside from the play style I choose, that is...

My whining is not about I don't have more, I'm fine the way i play the game, It is about sustainability and how gamers like me are restricted by RL to have more game time... Reprocessing my loot is how i get my minerals, which I occasionally use to build my ships, and yes, I rather build ships if I can rather than buying them, and I expand my own fleet of ships because I want to collect all subcaps that I can...

And what about you nulbears? nulsec is utterly static, with this upcoming changes, CCP is just reinforcing existing alliances in nulsec, denying new players to build up assets quick in the safety of highsec before they're able to confront entrenched alliances. If you nulbears indeed want an active nulsec, get rid of those bridges that allows you travel vast distances, allow hit and run tactics or guerrilla warfare on your systems, If you want sov on vast number of systems, guard each system 24/7, and not hide in some staging area deep in your territory.

Are you the type of people that get your paycheck and then immediately run to the bar

Me? On the contrary, quite the opposite, reason I only give myself a little 'me' time whenever I can..... but this is way off topic, don't you think?

My gripe is that these proposed changes will nerf the income of mission runners and highsec industrialists in NPC corps, and will greatly boost nullbears. At the moment, every advantage is on nullbears, ratting alone in nullsec systems is more than enough to eclipse the income of mission runners.... ratting = chance of faction loot; missions = zero chance, well, mission runners have Loyalty Points, but they're disadvantaged by the FW guys.

So, I can only surmise that CCP is trying to kill highsec bears while reinforcing nullbears, creating more hurdles for fresh new players who wants to eventually challenge the existing order in nullsec. That meme of a cop holding a baby in a baby car seat? That represents nullsec right now, CCP being the cop, and the baby represents the huge alliances.

Something I have always wondered about refining is why it is instant. I see lots of good changes in these updates and if I understood it correctly am glad to see the player owned stations can boost refining yield above an NPC station such that it becomes a bit more of a profession that needs more than just skills to be the best.

Has adding refining/reprocessing lines to the stations in a similar vain to manufacturing lines ever been considered such that if someone wanted to refine large quantities they would have to have multiple reprocessing arrays etc? I ask as this would go further to creating a profession of refining, and it would also mean people without refining skills couldn't as easily just pass them to someone with the skills and get the stuff back instantly. So this would apply to NPC stations to.

Just a thought sparked by these updates.

will refining outpost be usable in .5 and higher systems with this patch?

The most affected by these changes will be new players (not many participating here so you won't hear from them). Next most aggrieved are probably Rorqual owners, but this may only be temporary, and after that low sec inhabitants.

It's lowsec inhabitants I am wondering about - because if part of the goal of these changes is to reward play in areas of greater risk - lowsec players seem to be the segment most likely to experience risk and disruption of their play activities on a day to day basis.

I don't really have a measure of risk for sov null sec - to me it seems like player-owned highsec, with the odd angry shot (or trillion isk space battle fielded with materiel out of surplus) and long periods of calm for making bank. The increased income generating opportunities from having your own piece of null sec seem like adequate reward to me.

No, it won't be temporary, reprocessing (modules and such) will be reduced down to 52% from current levels, I'm a mission runner, and I don't reprocess ships, which are the only things that do have additional materials, as far as i know. That means mission runners will be hit hard with this proposed changes. I am for fixing the skills and its corresponding output (refining and reprocessing), i.e., you need to have max skills to refine at 100%, but again, these changes doesn't just do that, they will nerf mission runners income dramatically, especially since salvage prizes have plummeted.

tldr - this change nerfs my current primary isk source, and I'm still in favor of it.

So currently I make my money building capital ships in low sec. I've run the numbers, and the cost advantage of 60% refine in a Minmatar Tier 3 outpost (or 57% refine w/ +5% ME in an Amarr Tier 3, which comes out to about the same) is sufficiently large that I'm closing down capital ship production. Capital ship manufacturing is fundamentally just a very isk intensive form of t1 manufacturing, and margins have been narrowing even more over time as more folks have gotten into it. In the short term I think null will pocket the extra margin, but in the long term null will be able to supply the market and competition will drive margins down based on their cost, rendering lowsec manufacture impractical. (Unlike overall production which is a large enough volume to not all be able to move, a single account three character operation like mine can pump out roughly a hull per day, and Forge lowsec only sees five Archons/day trade hands, for example)

But, I'm still in favor of it.

Terrain and nonuniform space is good, right? Well, sov nullsec within single jump range of The Forge (Geminate, Vale of the Silent) is about to become one of the best places to build capital ships. In general, all shallow null just became more valuable. Since truesec tends to be worse in shallow null, this provides a different form of value that scales in roughly the opposite direction. Maybe I should go build ships in Provi. :)

Second, while I wouldn't have minded a less dramatic spread in refining advantage such that I could still operate at reduced profit, I can't argue with a straight face that lowsec poses such a great risk that I need more reward. Sure, there is an isk cost in terms of having a jump freighter to bring in compressed minerals, but to be honest I face almost zero risk.

For someone like me who focuses on pvp and just did this as a low effort money maker on the side the rational decision is to divest, but that simply means there is more room for a dedicated industrialist willing to put more effort in to find a corp operating out of shallow sov null and reap the rewards.

Will it still be worth it to reprocess modules in lowsec or should I join a nullsec corp so I can misuse their outposts for my reprocessing benefits. With max skills the yield in lowsec is way too low and once again all the benefits go to nullsec. Where is the love for lowsec pirates?