EVE General Discussion

dribble

I see you bolded the important parts

Read the whole thing and I must say, I wholeheartedly agree with the OP!

Good read, but there is an external force giving life support to this cancer and you cant do anything about it but pis and moan.

Dear James 315

Your statement gives a good explanation of how the gankers feel about miners in general, but you make a lot of assumptions that you can't back up as justifications for your actions.
Also you explanation is made to feel better about what you are doing. Because if everything would be that logical, you wouldn't need to justify your actions.

No matter how much you write or what "logical conclusions" you draw, it's just your oppinion on that matter. And you show an awful lot of prejudices that are just that.

You should realise that the bots are as much a problem for us miners than they are for the rest of the game. Even more so for us, because they reduce our ISK income. I would be as happy as you if they ban all the botters in the end.
We are guilty because we would bot mine when it would be legal? You see the logical flaw in your argumentation? If they ever legalize botting, of course a lot of people (including nullsec players with highsec mining alts) would use them. Why? Because it would be allowed and a normal game mechanic. Believe it or not, most miners I know wouldn't appreciate it, because it would destroy the gameplay we like. My guess is, that mostly the real akf miners would have fun with that. Where fun might not be the correct word... You are generalizing too much.

Piling a lot of ISK just for the sake of it is unfortunately something, a lot of miners seem to do. But by far not everyone. I'm using my ISK to buy other ships than mining ships, occasionaly I even use them in *gasp* PvP! Also many afk miners are alts of nullsec oder lowsec players. They use the ISK to fund their main characters style of play. I think most people who mine in highsec actually put a lot of their ISK back into the market. As others already said, mission running is a lot bigger problem with this. In the end, miners generate the resources to build the ships that others (or even themselve) destroy in PvP.
To say it as clear as possible: mining (no matter where) is a perfectly legal, viable and needed profession. Just because they mine the way the game mechanics allow them to, they are not "bad" people per se.

Miners have never taken a single action to protect themselves? How could they? Mining barges and exhumers aren't exactly ships someone can defend himself with. Use battleships to mine? It's a bad option, because the revenue is much lower with them and to get a good yield you have to disregard your tanking ability. Mining in highsec is already not that profitable, you know.
The problem is that there is no real good way to protect against suicide gankers. The machanics work in your favor, not in the favor of the miners. Until you attack, there is nothing a miner can do against a ganker other than flee, if he can. And when the ganker opens fire, it's already too late in most cases. We could discuss for hours who the coward is in the end. And don't forget too look what the miner looses and what the ganker looses. It can be frustrating to loose a ship that costs nearly 200 million to a handful of destroyers. It's not frustrating that a ship like this can be destroyed, but it shouldn't be that easy as it is now.

I'm not asking for harsher treatment for gankers and in general I'm okay with ganking. I also think that a lot of miners are whining and raging a bit too much and don't really help to make the situation better.
My guess is, that gankers don't do it because they actually hate the highsec miners. They do it because of the thrills and because of the whining and raging afterwards. We germans have a good word to discribe that, you use it even in the english language: schadenfreude. Why I think that is the case? Because if I would decide to gank I would do it exactly because of that. Everything else would just be a justification to make me feel better and not have to pity my victim.


Maybe because they don't have done anything to you personaly? Because they are in general no threat to you? The question I would like to ask: What do you actually gain by killing them, when factoring out the "thrill" of it? Why bother with people you don't want to play with? You could just ignore them.

You know, there goes a saying: Live and let live.
EVE is a big sandbox. Highsec miners play the game how they like it. If they like to hoard a lot of ISK and not doing something else with it, what bothers you so much about that? If you live in nullsec, what interest do you have in the matters of highsec? Why can't you respect the way other people have fun in the game? Even so I don't like gankers I can respect their style of play.


I am against afk miners and botters as much as you, but suicide ganking isn't the way to solve that problem.

some nobody somewhere said that brevity is the soul of wit, if you want me to read a 7k post it needs to actually say something that requires 7k. There's mathematical research papers out there that aren't as long and have substantially more content.

I admire the effort but there are a lot of fallacies in there, bro.

looks like the biggest load of bollocks/troll ever to me, especially when you consider that miners have by far the lowest isk/hour ratio in the whole game.

There is no justification at all for killing them, but if you need justification for anything you do in EvE theres something wrong with you anyway. Just kill em, doesnt need a 50 page OP to justify.

tl;dr times 8

I didn't read it all but the first 2 posts are so flawed in reasoning its beyond worth caring for...