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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#1401 - 2014-04-20 23:41:28 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Sizeof Void wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Vesago wrote:
It costs you 50 million to wardec me....

It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...

yep its fair.

Why stop mining? I don't. I just stay aware when mining, and change my tactics a little, like using Retrievers instead of Hulks and Orca.

Um, if you are under a wardec, they will pop your Retriever as soon as you undock from the station. No one with a brain does high-sec PVE activity while under a wardec.

Why are you still mining in the same system?
Why are you not checking local?
Why are you not scouting?
I'm the one without a brain?

What difference does it make what system you are mining in? If you move, I can find you easily enough via a locator agent.

How does checking local help you? I can send an alt in to scout, and mark your location. Then, it is a matter of seconds to jump into the system and pop you, before you have a chance to react.

Scouting where? Are you going to multi-box scouts in every surrounding system? To defend your lousy Retriever? lol...

And, yes, you either haven't really been mining during a wardec, or you don't have a brain.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1402 - 2014-04-21 00:49:29 UTC
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1403 - 2014-04-21 01:00:39 UTC
Querns wrote:
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.


Far less of it happens than used to happen. CCP decided to give the ganker free kills when we lost hidden grav sites (Because god forbid the ganker have to employ :effort: to find targets). Then, when they still couldn't kill off nullsec mining they gave them instant align, fast warping, interdiction nullified, tacklers.
Aeonidis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1404 - 2014-04-21 01:12:04 UTC
Urziel99 wrote:
Querns wrote:
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.


Far less of it happens than used to happen. CCP decided to give the ganker free kills when we lost hidden grav sites (Because god forbid the ganker have to employ :effort: to find targets). Then, when they still couldn't kill off nullsec mining they gave them instant align, fast warping, interdiction nullified, tacklers.



who the hell wants to mine null anyway all the rock out there sells for far less than its base price. logi to get it to a decent market is an expensive pita, and I can mine far more than I could ever sell or use of those high end rocks. it was not till I started mining for minerals below isogen in highsec that I was actually able to sell everything I mined in a decent time frame. for a miner null will never have enough reward for the risk. or be viable game play, when afk cloaky can just walk away from their computer and lock you in station/pos for the few hours you may be online every night.
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#1405 - 2014-04-21 01:28:20 UTC
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1406 - 2014-04-21 01:31:46 UTC
Aeonidis wrote:
Urziel99 wrote:
Querns wrote:
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.


Far less of it happens than used to happen. CCP decided to give the ganker free kills when we lost hidden grav sites (Because god forbid the ganker have to employ :effort: to find targets). Then, when they still couldn't kill off nullsec mining they gave them instant align, fast warping, interdiction nullified, tacklers.



who the hell wants to mine null anyway all the rock out there sells for far less than its base price. logi to get it to a decent market is an expensive pita, and I can mine far more than I could ever sell or use of those high end rocks. it was not till I started mining for minerals below isogen in highsec that I was actually able to sell everything I mined in a decent time frame. for a miner null will never have enough reward for the risk. or be viable game play, when afk cloaky can just walk away from their computer and lock you in station/pos for the few hours you may be online every night.


It's slower to move large amounts of Zydrine and Megacyte, and Morphite can take great deal of time to move given it's limited use, but the trick is to not just mine ABCDM. Mining the other materials gives the few who do industry in nullsec the base minerals they need, and makes the sites respawn faster. Rorqual compression also makes the bulk of ores a non-issue as well as giving some pretty awesome command bonuses and being a cheap transport platform.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#1407 - 2014-04-21 01:36:52 UTC
Vigilant wrote:
LOWSEC will always be a non used area of EVE compared ti High/Null. RvR is not there for most people that like to keep their stuff in one piece and the others who want to blow up other players (PvP) just join one of the big 3 and they have what they want. Leaves noobs and pirates...and bored Null bears.


And highsec will ALWAYS have the best industry? And null will ALWAYS have really bad sov mechanics?

Risk vs reward should play out properly in lowsec as well.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#1408 - 2014-04-21 01:40:44 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
LOWSEC will always be a non used area of EVE compared ti High/Null. RvR is not there for most people that like to keep their stuff in one piece and the others who want to blow up other players (PvP) just join one of the big 3 and they have what they want. Leaves noobs and pirates...and bored Null bears.


And highsec will ALWAYS have the best industry? And null will ALWAYS have really bad sov mechanics?

Risk vs reward should play out properly in lowsec as well.


I agree 100 percent, but 10 years of history does not give me much hope... Ugh
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1409 - 2014-04-21 01:51:35 UTC
Vigilant wrote:
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.

Ah, yes, thank you.

What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Vigilant
Vigilant's Vigilante's
#1410 - 2014-04-21 02:03:43 UTC
Querns wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.

Ah, yes, thank you.

What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has?


F'ing lazy for the most part Shocked
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1411 - 2014-04-21 02:05:50 UTC
Querns wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.

Ah, yes, thank you.

What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has?


To be fair Querns, there are a lot of neuts in highsec to sift through, whereas if they show up in Deklein as a non-blue, it's a safe bet they aren't there for the conversation about the weather..
DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1412 - 2014-04-21 02:10:59 UTC
CCP Nullarbor wrote:
EDIT: There is also a nice search / filter interface, you will get some time on SiSi to give us feedback on how this works before we go live too.


Will CCP actually listen to peoples experience on SISI and not only 'consider', but also make changes regarding the problems people are having, or will this industry shakedown turn into another 'we know whats best for you' style of arrogant bandage solution we are often subjected to ?
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1413 - 2014-04-21 03:00:18 UTC
Urziel99 wrote:
Querns wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.

Ah, yes, thank you.

What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has?


To be fair Querns, there are a lot of neuts in highsec to sift through, whereas if they show up in Deklein as a non-blue, it's a safe bet they aren't there for the conversation about the weather..

They're only blue because we've spent years engaging with the community and finding out who is "trustworthy" and who is not. I guess it might be too much to ask for disenfranchised, antisocial highsec dwellers to actually have to engage with the community.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Aeonidis
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1414 - 2014-04-21 05:18:26 UTC
Querns wrote:

...I guess it might be too much to ask for disenfranchised, antisocial highsec dwellers to actually have to engage with the community.



its this very attitude that is one of the big reasons I live in high sec rather than sov. its rampant and its gross. I'd rather play with myself.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1415 - 2014-04-21 05:28:21 UTC
Querns wrote:
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.


I have been in a corp with at least 5-6 wardecs up at any given time.

We mined in deep low sec, not a single hi sec "PvPer" had the guts to come there and try shoot an Hulk. Pirate

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1416 - 2014-04-21 05:29:15 UTC
Vesago wrote:

It costs you 50 million to wardec me....

It costs me a billion plus a week if i stop mining...

yep its fair.


Because we all know, EvE is marketed as THE fair game! Lol

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1417 - 2014-04-21 05:32:47 UTC
Querns wrote:
With all the doom and gloom surrounding mining during a wardec, it makes you wonder how any mining occurs in nullsec, where you are not only effectively under a wardec from everyone at the same time, but also vulnerable to hotdrops.


Ah, I (I am talking of my alts here) have also been in an industry sov null sec renter for 6 months. Despite the lack of defenses we have seen all of *1* hostile squad of 5 in the whole time. That's null sec HIGH RISK for you!

On the contrary, during Hulkageddons there were up to 70+ ship kills in "my" hi sec system every single day. And about 8 during non Hulkageddon times.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#1418 - 2014-04-21 05:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Querns wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.

Ah, yes, thank you.

What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has?


In null sec it's visually EASY to spot hostiles: the second you see *1* neut pop in local you know you have some seconds to warp to POS. Also, you can shoot and THEN ask.

In hi sec you have 60-70 other neuts in system all the time (nor you can switch system if you do ice) and all you can do is to add to contact those you see ganking other people around you. Furthermore if you see neuts warping in, you can't "shoot and then ask" as you just get concorded.

That is, the tools are not exactly the same.

Basically what keeps anyone bothering with hi sec is: a sense of (false) safety due mostly to the buffed mining ships EHP and the lack of the most boring mechanic (after mining itself): logistics.
In hi sec you are more or less assured you can log in 30 minutes, mine (for those masochistic enough to do that), refine and move the stuff around. In low sec it's an excruciting pain involving scouts, escorts and all sort of stuff that basically makes you dependant on other guys to escort & protect.
Now, the latter is actually awesome for those who like me were logistics officers in a low/null based PvP corp because we always had up to 50 battleships and assorted smaller ships escorting our convoys in ANY sec (some times even in hi sec).

On the contrary, it's a damn nightmare to anyone in a smaller corp, as unlike us those corps can't cover 24/7 gameplay so people have to play only when the others play and that gets ugly quick and then people start quitting and good bye corp.

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Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#1419 - 2014-04-21 05:49:58 UTC
Changing a queue system for production to a cost system is a very very bad idea.

Granted, the queue system sucks, but a cost system will lead to people having to haul over the place to get some profit. So basically they now have to haul which is basically waiting AT the keyboard instead of waiting AWAY from the keyboard under the queue system.

This is another example of an ill thought through change that causes more boredom, like we had so many lately.

I think the right way to do it is give the player the option to either join the queue OR pay more for a rush job. That way I think you get the best of both worlds.
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1420 - 2014-04-21 06:54:27 UTC
Querns wrote:
Urziel99 wrote:
Querns wrote:
Vigilant wrote:
Plenty of backwater systems with little to no traffic that could be mined all day and night by a few people. And with local still being completely on in regular space, and 14 layers of alliance defenses (roams, intel, etc.) you can mine your brains out. But, valid point m8, unless you need the minerals to build something, easier to shoot stuff and refine.

Ah, yes, thank you.

What I've never understood about this whole "nullsec is safe" thing is that, sure, the tools exist to mitigate risk in nullsec. However, they're not specific to nullsec -- anyone in any area of space (with a non-delayed local) can use the same tools. Why do highsec dwellers refuse to use the same tools that nullsec has?


To be fair Querns, there are a lot of neuts in highsec to sift through, whereas if they show up in Deklein as a non-blue, it's a safe bet they aren't there for the conversation about the weather..

They're only blue because we've spent years engaging with the community and finding out who is "trustworthy" and who is not. I guess it might be too much to ask for disenfranchised, antisocial highsec dwellers to actually have to engage with the community.


To sort through that many organizations in one region of secured space would make the CFC's bluelist look downright quaint for it's lack of size. I can see the tired meme's now. Highsec: The Blue Doughnut's Hole.