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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

First post First post First post
Author
dark lollipop
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1421 - 2014-04-21 08:16:38 UTC  |  Edited by: dark lollipop
Can you please make it so manufacturing/copying from T2 BPO can only be done from a POS?

Looks like the right time to start "removing" those from the game by letting them get blown up in POS. T2 BPO shouldnt be in game anymore, we have invention now.
Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#1422 - 2014-04-21 09:37:22 UTC
Querns wrote:
Draconus Lofwyr wrote:
but its still a nerf to those that worked for the standings.

You'll have to console yourself with the previous decade of uninterrupted highsec POS hegemony. I feel like you'll get over it.

I have worked on standings to set up pos in 0.6 system bougth pos but wont bother seting it up with the new summer update to com.getting standings have not been the mayor problem the problem have been that POs have been linked to corp standings and not just player standings,and the wariabel tax on production slots give ccp a grate neew tool to nerf hi sec in comming updates,no won rely belivs that this update is just a nother nerf to indi pilots in hi sec lol look on what they been doing the last 3 major updats they nerfing hi to get pepol to low and 0 sec but it wont work when the risk factor for the miner is more than 1000% in dissadvantage for the miner contra the ganker,this game have newer been about risk vs reward only about giving pew pew pilots more to blow up
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1423 - 2014-04-21 11:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: D'Kelle
Loraine Gess wrote:
Theo Sotken wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Theo Sotken wrote:
.

I am also concerned that being wardecced is already a pretty cheap afk way of griefing an industry corp and adds no risk to the wardeccer while causing a lot of disruption and expense. I would like a mechanic that introduces a long consequence for the wardeccers rather than the current pitifully low isk payment.




lol


Learn to shoot back, you being terrible is not a reason to change game mechanics



And yet CCP seems to want to make industrialists more vulnerable and put more stuff at risk rather than tell pvpers be better?
and as for your advice 'Learn to shoot back' doesn't help the industry corp at all during the wardec period does it!




Having to destroy an online POS isn't risky enough?? Throw some guns on and you can easily outstrip the expected value for 99% of attackers. Your characters can easily drop/swap corps at any time to avoid wardecs, or easily fight back against the "ganker menace", but you choose not to and suffer as a consequence. This is not CCP's problem, it is yours.


As far as dropping /Swapping corps are concerned that particular ploy has been blocked now by CCP I believe and as to POS gunnery you have to be online your self when the attack hits your POS.
Weapons online or not If the attack hits and its one or two days before it comes out of reinforced mode you or your Corp mates may very well be at work again, (due to time zones and RL availability), when it needs to be `shield reped` and or the weapons replaced or repaired you cannot choose the time when a POS comes out of reinforced mode unlike a POCO's nor can you carry out any effective repairs maintenance while in reinforced, POS owners are in a NO WIN situation simply because CCP again have failed to bring POS's into line with all other updates and gameplay releases to help keep them in balance. If they effectively and efficiently addressed POS flaws there would be far less controversy to this whole situation.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1424 - 2014-04-21 11:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Just a thought but *why* does everything have to be better in nullsec?

Industry should always benefit from stability rather than chaos thus hisec is the natural choice. This also introduces more people moving stuff from hisec to losec and vice versa. If these changes make things so null is better than everywhere for everything then this ends up forcing everyone to move to null. However there is no way in hell a new player can hope to make a difference in null. They simply have to join a nullsec corp and follow their rules. No individual choice anymore.

I really hope this isn't aimed at nerfing hisec and forcing people to null as this will homogenize the player base and kill the game for the casual player, hence killing the game in its entirety. There have to be areas for all play styles, and those areas have to have some benefit*for* those playstyles. hisec should remain the industry powerhouse to promote players to move goods between the security sectors. Otherwise why would anyone ever need to move otherwise? For combat? that'd just become dull...move blob A to engage blob B and change errrrmmmm well nothing overall...

lo/null should remain with mostly better resources, but industry should benefit from hisec stability, this makes for greater player movement, this more player interaction. Forcing all players to need to play in one are will just make the game dull and lead to those without enough time to dedicate to constant warfare, or without the inclination to be part of a large faceless group no longer bothering with the game.
marly cortez
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1425 - 2014-04-21 11:54:35 UTC
Seems CCP is making great efforts to murder there baby with death designed by a thousand cuts , PVP all the way guys, if it moves shoot it.

Want more space, we will give you more space, odd they never noticed that the vast majority of 0.0 is unused currently, and of course if you do choose to go there to mine, we have an answer for that as well, it's called PvP...Heavily armed Player verses utterly unarmed Player but if your alert and have intel, we have the answer to that to, The good old hot dropping cloaked camper, that will put a stop to your game for the day, maybe you could try industry instead, but hang on a minute, we cannot have players actually doing anything constructive that will attract them in this game can we, enter stage right the dancing Nerf monsters singing the Spam song, forget that idea, Get out of here player, your not wanted in 0.0, begone back to Empire were you belong, Not much point of logging in at all except to change skills, Leave the great expanse of 0.0 to those huge Alliances and there roaming gangs of gankers but with not much mining going on and ratting getting nerfed as well, not much fun for them really, No one there you see, there all turtled up around there brand new ESS, That's ok, we can steal there ISK and kill the ESS and put a Cloaked Black Ops camper in system, PvP at it's very best, no Players, no chance of kills, win win win for you.

If you read that lot you might think I was bitter about all this but would you be surprised to learn that I am in no way bitter about it, I actually find it hilarious that CCP would indeed try to kill off EVE in this manner rather than just pulling the plug on it, instead allowing it's workforce to systematically destroy EVE simply because they failed to understand the player base and realise that it is not only the EVE economy that works just like real life.

There is a point when a person recognises the facts, if I do that then this will happen and everything I have done so far will be wasted and in the absence of incentive people do nothing, specifically they do not do what you predict they will do when you design changes in this game.

The small item known as incentive brings with it the thought that maybe CCP should consider there strategy with a little more thought, accept there has to be a reason to change something and when you do you should really take care to fully understand what will happen when you do, if it adds to or maintains the incentive factor for a player then that's ok, but if it detracts from that the results will cascade though EVE, and you will not get what you predicted, butterfly effect applies.

Look back at Plexing, you changed that, ostensibly to make it better in your view, result was that many players just stopped doing it at all, no incentive you see, you added new sites, along with that childish Pac Man game and Ghost sites, result even less players wanted to do it, good earner for those few that mastered it, majority just could not see the point in it and will not engage, it is not all about risk verses reward in the end, there has to be a good helping of incentive, without that your time has been wasted and our's as well, similar with mining you changed that again in your view to make it better, result less people do it, wonder how many Roquals are currently sitting in 0.0 stations unused.

Now you have turned you attention to Industry, but I would take care, from what I have read so far I can reliably predict you will not get the result you are planning for.

Humanity is the thin veneer that remains after you remove the baffled chimp.

Tara Tyrael
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
#1426 - 2014-04-21 11:57:03 UTC
when are the numbers for pos changes coming out, come on CCP

also, anybody taking bets on new indy screen not fitting on smaller screens :D
Davethethird
Kayama Technology
#1427 - 2014-04-21 13:21:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Davethethird
I'm sorry, I'm just too lazy to read through the many bibles of informatrion which have been posted or will be posted, I'm far too busy running through all my industry focused efforts which I have trained long and hard to do over the last 7 or so years with my many toons that I have paid a small mortgage for..... Now to find out that much of that effort will have been wasted as the important restrictions are being lifted to make things easier for newer players and also to hand over even more of the real money making opportunities to Null Sec alliances once again, call me a cynic, but I have been around long enough and been involved in most gameplay types to see what is happening.

Okay rant over and onto the questions.

If you haven't already, please could you consider adding a "Deliver All Automatically" button to inventions etc. I'm not really interested in knowing how many jobs have failed or succeeded (If I want to know that I could choose to deliver manually) this is an intensive waste of time to have me clicking the deliver button 11 times per toon I am running invention jobs with etc. Please sort that out.

I take it from your comments that we might be getting a "Build/Invent/research/copy All" button, hopefully this will mean that whatever bpo/c's and materials I have loaded up will create multiple jobs to the limit of available resources with one click, that would be nice.

Oh and another thing... as the cost of this game is basically for skill training, please could you consider stacking skill points based on time a toon is paid for, this way if people cannot set skills for whatever reason (offline due to ill health, on vacation, maybe just forgot), at least they can utilise the skill training time they have paid for instead of losing it. I know there will be complications for implants usage etc. but this should not be rocket science to sort out.

Thanks for your consideration, please consider the long term players that may not want to be part of a large alliance but have been the backbone of this game for as long as it has existed.

Hugs and Kisses.

Dave3

PS. I just want you to make the indy easier (less like a job) so I can spend all my ill gotten gains on blowing ships up on my fun toon doing PvP.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1428 - 2014-04-21 13:28:13 UTC
I assume Faction Warfare station slots will have a different cost scaling amount based on system upgrade level? Otherwise one of the few meaningful bonuses that system upgrading gives will be eliminated.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1429 - 2014-04-21 14:37:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Soldarius
Urziel99 wrote:
Try again. I have all the skills trained on 4 accounts. I used to mine in nullsec with mining crystals before CCP broke the Exhumers cargo bays. http://eveboard.com/pilot/Urziel99 take a look for yourself. I only stopped mining in nullsec after CCP broke hidden belts.

As to your blather about BPO's in a POS We can remote build with BPO's and BPC's now. The only proviso is to make sure that the print and the materials are both in the same hangar division. I've done it with T1 and T2 mods for 2 years now.

Standings are however being changed if 6.66 can't give tax-free refines then those standings are by default worth less than they were pre-patch.

As to your last line, I expect such idiocy from TEST, you can tell your masters you have upheld their reputation for cluelessness.


So what exactly are you complaining about if you have all the skills? Nothing wrong with Exhumers, except you can get better yield out of a Procurer than anything else except a Hulk, and for far less isk risked. Wanna go afk? Mine in a Mack. Worried about rats? Mine in a Skiff.

Hidden belts still exist. Derp, no they don't Mah memory...

Mining in nul now give lots of low-ends like trit and pyerite. On the other hand I agree that some of the changes were not for the best, like getting rid of grav sites and nullified interceptors.

In nul, standings were irrelevent (assuming you had standings to dock), unless the owning corp imposed a refinery tax based on standings. Most alliances have a flat rate of 0%. If they don't pick a new one.

In hisec NPC stations, standings will effect your refine rate same as before. But come this summer one needs to actually have the refining skills to do it. Since you have them, why are you complaining? The only thing that will effect you is that you will need to train Veldspar, Scordite, Plagioclase, and Pyroxeres Refining to 5. I already did it. It took me all of 2 weeks. I even threw in Jaspet, Kernite, and Omber for the lulz.

And as for being able to remotely produce anything, every time I've tried it the game tells me that the materials need to be in the same location as the BPs. But then again, when I was producing in nulsec, I had an entire factory station mostly to myself. So I didn't need to build at POS. (Saved me a crap ton of isk.)

And as for my melodramatic parody spurge, if you can't tell it was for comedic effect, perhaps you should lighten up and try to enjoy the game once in a while.

So far, the only thing that is actually going to change is that those who refuse to adapt will end up paying more to produce stuff, and thus will not profit as much or at all. But you're so focused on the injustice of it all, that you can't even see that there will be very little actual change required.

Hisec has enjoyed a massive advantage vs nulsec for 10 years. Soon people may actually build something in nulsec besides supers and titans via mineral compression.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1430 - 2014-04-21 14:49:53 UTC
Davethethird wrote:

If you haven't already, please could you consider adding a "Deliver All Automatically" button to inventions etc. I'm not really interested in knowing how many jobs have failed or succeeded (If I want to know that I could choose to deliver manually) this is an intensive waste of time to have me clicking the deliver button 11 times per toon I am running invention jobs with etc. Please sort that out.

Hold down shift, click the first and the last one (so you select all of them) then hit deliver. Just keep tapping enter until the failed/succeeded windows stop popping up.

If you run your own personal altcorp you can install for corp and deliver all of your alt jobs at once using this method.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1431 - 2014-04-21 14:53:49 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.


26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#1432 - 2014-04-21 15:14:48 UTC
Soldarius wrote:

Hisec has enjoyed a massive advantage vs nulsec for 10 years. Soon people may actually build something in nulsec besides supers and titans via mineral compression.


Hisec has a massive advantage? Ok as i'm still relatively new here could you tell me the last time hisec threw away the equivalent of 75 titans in a battle or fielded multibazillion blobs of archons?

Hisec has *no* advantages already...at least leave us the ability to run stable industry...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#1433 - 2014-04-21 16:00:26 UTC
Probably no devs reading in here anymore, but anyways:

Corp offices are still requirement for POS after the patch? I know you dread your own code these days and this is probably an ancient relic with devilish powers that could annihilate all Iceland in one go, but with the coming changes this should be removed.

Otherwise you pay ISK to the station owner/NPC sink for the office + ISK to the NPC sink for production/Invention/research if you want to use a tower and actually do what you want us to do: use your dreaded and fearmongering mechanics. This added double punishment is unlikely to sit well with the community, and makes you appear in a not so pleasant light (not that this was the case with these changes, but hey... Blink)

So: Remove the station office requirement for POS usage with the expansion.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Samsung Tsurpalen
The Chunnel Crew
#1434 - 2014-04-21 16:09:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Samsung Tsurpalen
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Soldarius wrote:

Hisec has enjoyed a massive advantage vs nulsec for 10 years. Soon people may actually build something in nulsec besides supers and titans via mineral compression.


Hisec has a massive advantage? Ok as i'm still relatively new here could you tell me the last time hisec threw away the equivalent of 75 titans in a battle or fielded multibazillion blobs of archons?

Hisec has *no* advantages already...at least leave us the ability to run stable industry...


Hisec does have a massive advantage when it comes to industry, and it's pretty straightforward. CONCORD and the lack of bubbles lets Hisec industrialists move freighters around like it's no big deal, whereas in nullsec you need to jump all of your stuff in (which is way harder and costs more).

That's really THE thing that separates null/low markets from hisec markets and is why nobody really builds there.

The only advantage nullsec has over high right now is that there is access to high end combat anomalies that can be run afk, the best PI extraction rates, and it's basically the only place to go for exploration
Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
#1435 - 2014-04-21 16:21:09 UTC
Any chance of an public, industry-related API for stations?
Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
#1436 - 2014-04-21 16:26:36 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Soldarius wrote:

Hisec has enjoyed a massive advantage vs nulsec for 10 years. Soon people may actually build something in nulsec besides supers and titans via mineral compression.


Hisec has a massive advantage? Ok as i'm still relatively new here could you tell me the last time hisec threw away the equivalent of 75 titans in a battle or fielded multibazillion blobs of archons?

Hisec has *no* advantages already...at least leave us the ability to run stable industry...



If you really do have it hard, then be proud that CCP thinks you can take a harder lot in life.

May the Hulkageddon games be ever in your favor....
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1437 - 2014-04-21 16:33:55 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Seems CCP is making great efforts to murder there baby with death designed by a thousand cuts , PVP all the way guys, if it moves shoot it.

Want more space, we will give you more space, odd they never noticed that the vast majority of 0.0 is unused currently, and of course if you do choose to go there to mine, we have an answer for that as well, it's called PvP...Heavily armed Player verses utterly unarmed Player but if your alert and have intel, we have the answer to that to, The good old hot dropping cloaked camper, that will put a stop to your game for the day, maybe you could try industry instead, but hang on a minute, we cannot have players actually doing anything constructive that will attract them in this game can we, enter stage right the dancing Nerf monsters singing the Spam song, forget that idea, Get out of here player, your not wanted in 0.0, begone back to Empire were you belong, Not much point of logging in at all except to change skills, Leave the great expanse of 0.0 to those huge Alliances and there roaming gangs of gankers but with not much mining going on and ratting getting nerfed as well, not much fun for them really, No one there you see, there all turtled up around there brand new ESS, That's ok, we can steal there ISK and kill the ESS and put a Cloaked Black Ops camper in system, PvP at it's very best, no Players, no chance of kills, win win win for you.

If you read that lot you might think I was bitter about all this but would you be surprised to learn that I am in no way bitter about it, I actually find it hilarious that CCP would indeed try to kill off EVE in this manner rather than just pulling the plug on it, instead allowing it's workforce to systematically destroy EVE simply because they failed to understand the player base and realise that it is not only the EVE economy that works just like real life.

There is a point when a person recognises the facts, if I do that then this will happen and everything I have done so far will be wasted and in the absence of incentive people do nothing, specifically they do not do what you predict they will do when you design changes in this game.

The small item known as incentive brings with it the thought that maybe CCP should consider there strategy with a little more thought, accept there has to be a reason to change something and when you do you should really take care to fully understand what will happen when you do, if it adds to or maintains the incentive factor for a player then that's ok, but if it detracts from that the results will cascade though EVE, and you will not get what you predicted, butterfly effect applies.

Look back at Plexing, you changed that, ostensibly to make it better in your view, result was that many players just stopped doing it at all, no incentive you see, you added new sites, along with that childish Pac Man game and Ghost sites, result even less players wanted to do it, good earner for those few that mastered it, majority just could not see the point in it and will not engage, it is not all about risk verses reward in the end, there has to be a good helping of incentive, without that your time has been wasted and our's as well, similar with mining you changed that again in your view to make it better, result less people do it, wonder how many Roquals are currently sitting in 0.0 stations unused.

Now you have turned you attention to Industry, but I would take care, from what I have read so far I can reliably predict you will not get the result you are planning for.


I tried to read this entire thing and understand what it meant, but I just don't.

What is the specific problem again?

Did you perhaps mean to post this on a different character?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Alyxportur
From Our Cold Dead Hands
#1438 - 2014-04-21 17:11:37 UTC
marly cortez wrote:
Seems CCP is ... PVP all the way guys, if it moves shoot it.

Want more ... industry ... that will attract ... Players ... win win win for you.

If you read that ... you might think I was ... hilarious ... instead ... the EVE economy that works just like real life.

... facts ... will happen and ... design changes ... this game.

The small ... reason to change something ... for a player ... detracts from ... what ... butterfly effect [implies].

Look ... you changed ... 0.0 stations...

Now ... I ... care ... what ... you are planning



That's how I skimmed it.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1439 - 2014-04-21 17:16:49 UTC
Alyxportur wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Seems CCP is ... PVP all the way guys, if it moves shoot it.

Want more ... industry ... that will attract ... Players ... win win win for you.

If you read that ... you might think I was ... hilarious ... instead ... the EVE economy that works just like real life.

... facts ... will happen and ... design changes ... this game.

The small ... reason to change something ... for a player ... detracts from ... what ... butterfly effect [implies].

Look ... you changed ... 0.0 stations...

Now ... I ... care ... what ... you are planning



That's how I skimmed it.

This is probably the first post in the history of the forums that has actually used ellipses correctly.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

DooDoo Gum
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1440 - 2014-04-21 17:28:54 UTC
Querns wrote:
Alyxportur wrote:
marly cortez wrote:
Seems CCP is ... PVP all the way guys, if it moves shoot it.

Want more ... industry ... that will attract ... Players ... win win win for you.

If you read that ... you might think I was ... hilarious ... instead ... the EVE economy that works just like real life.

... facts ... will happen and ... design changes ... this game.

The small ... reason to change something ... for a player ... detracts from ... what ... butterfly effect [implies].

Look ... you changed ... 0.0 stations...

Now ... I ... care ... what ... you are planning



That's how I skimmed it.

This is probably the first post in the history of the forums that has actually used ellipses correctly.


i thought ellipses were meant to shorten sentences?