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Dev blog: Building better Worlds

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Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
#421 - 2014-04-15 19:37:25 UTC
theman428 wrote:

no if your producing from a pos u will have to have the BPO/BPC in the pos with the mats not from the station... after patch ofc


ofc you have to put the BPC into the pos if you WANT to produce at the pos.
but you aren't forced to produce at a pos as there are stations where you can produce. YOU can decide whether to risk your bpc at the POS or not. But you can't get the safety of station and the advantage of the POS. I didn't said anything else.
Amber Solaire
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#422 - 2014-04-15 19:38:06 UTC
theman428 wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
Correct me if I`m wrong

If more people decide to use stations for safety, won`t this slow down overall production,
thus making a lot of CCP`s great ideas the reverse of an improvement to Industry?



no it will just make it more expensive for those seeking slots



More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#423 - 2014-04-15 19:40:46 UTC
Amber Solaire wrote:
theman428 wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
Correct me if I`m wrong

If more people decide to use stations for safety, won`t this slow down overall production,
thus making a lot of CCP`s great ideas the reverse of an improvement to Industry?



no it will just make it more expensive for those seeking slots



More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all

less people doing it = profits skyrocket = people start doing it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
theman428
Order .66.
Brothers of Tangra
#424 - 2014-04-15 19:40:56 UTC
Chanina wrote:
theman428 wrote:

no if your producing from a pos u will have to have the BPO/BPC in the pos with the mats not from the station... after patch ofc


ofc you have to put the BPC into the pos if you WANT to produce at the pos.
but you aren't forced to produce at a pos as there are stations where you can produce. YOU can decide whether to risk your bpc at the POS or not. But you can't get the safety of station and the advantage of the POS. I didn't said anything else.



friend i was not responding to u.. please next time see who im quoting
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#425 - 2014-04-15 19:41:15 UTC
Amber Solaire wrote:
theman428 wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
Correct me if I`m wrong

If more people decide to use stations for safety, won`t this slow down overall production,
thus making a lot of CCP`s great ideas the reverse of an improvement to Industry?



no it will just make it more expensive for those seeking slots



More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all

You can mitigate the expense by spreading out from Jita and finding a nice, quiet place to produce, or erecting a POS, which, conveniently, had a significant barrier to entry removed.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
theman428
Order .66.
Brothers of Tangra
#426 - 2014-04-15 19:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: theman428
new high sec copy pos

new high sec copy pos setup
gifter Penken
State War Academy
Caldari State
#427 - 2014-04-15 19:42:32 UTC
Amber Solaire wrote:
theman428 wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
Correct me if I`m wrong

If more people decide to use stations for safety, won`t this slow down overall production,
thus making a lot of CCP`s great ideas the reverse of an improvement to Industry?



no it will just make it more expensive for those seeking slots



More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all




I suspect you will see a near equilibrium established where the high sec station slot prices increase to the point that the hassle of running a high sec alt corp with a POS to do research become profitable enough for people to do it.


What you are NOT going to see is the intended "people putting expensive BPOs into low/null sec POS then losing them to attack".
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#428 - 2014-04-15 19:43:11 UTC
Some of these changes like killing extra materials seem really good; others like infinite building slots and scaling costs seem like they'll probably go horribly wrong.

I definitely don't like the **** you to lore with ending standings requirements for highsec POSes or the **** you to supercap producers with the BPO change.
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine
In Tea We Trust
#429 - 2014-04-15 19:43:13 UTC
Amber Solaire wrote:
theman428 wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
Correct me if I`m wrong

If more people decide to use stations for safety, won`t this slow down overall production,
thus making a lot of CCP`s great ideas the reverse of an improvement to Industry?



no it will just make it more expensive for those seeking slots



More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all

Given how many stations there are out there, I doubt that any pricing problem couldn't be solved by moving a few jumps further away from the busy systems.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#430 - 2014-04-15 19:43:57 UTC
I thought of a potential gotcha: Will POS assembly modules also have their slots removed? Will you be able to, e.g., run an infinite number of ammo jobs from a single ammo assembly array?

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#431 - 2014-04-15 19:44:44 UTC
Re-reading the blog and browsing through the thread, I now realize and remember about so many more sandbox elements being killed. Yet again, throwing more toys into the sandbox instead of adding more sand.

We all know the standings are a pain for most people, why not implement a system for selling them? Let those who like to grind, grind for other. Like you did with sec status.

Slots are a problem? Allow us to rent our POS slots to the public, not just alliance! Let the players manage and run the economy. Instead you're pushing players away from player owned assets into NPC ones.

Why not have the option of selling LPs? Why not allow more tools and ways for people to deal with each other. We don't play EVE just because we can blow each other up, we play it because we can build something meaningful and interact with each other in many ways.

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#432 - 2014-04-15 19:45:19 UTC
From your dev blog

In turn, this allows us to change several points:
• Allow Starbases to be anchored anywhere in high-security space and without standing requirements (minus some protected solar systems, like Jita or new player starting systems of course).




• Remove the ability for players to use stations to safely store their blueprints without putting them at risk in Starbase structures.



Players will still be able to start their jobs remotely (via the use of Supply Chain Management and Scientific Networking skills), but will now have to move their blueprints directly into the starbase structures that require it, like other materials.
• Improve Mobile Laboratories and Assembly Arrays to compensate for such risk – we’ll give you final numbers as soon as we have them.
• Reduce copy time on all blueprints to be less time consuming than manufacturing something out of it. This gives the option to use blueprint copies to build items at Starbases without risking the original.


Please take note of the single highlighted line, don't you think before you jump in with both feet that you should improve the almost non-existent, pitifully inadequate self defence AI of POS's before you force more valuable stuff into them and therefore " at Risk "
Players cannot all be online 24-7-365 so greater self defence needs to be in there until Corp members can at least get on line in their time zone. To deal fairly with a given situation, at least that way you have a chance to have a reasonable balance in game, you know what I mean, 'the balance' you seem to advertise and hold in front of everyone on a big banner every time you change stuff.
Ruric Thyase
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#433 - 2014-04-15 19:45:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruric Thyase
gifter Penken wrote:
Ruric Thyase wrote:
Build at a POS:

Pro: you do not have to pay scaling costs from building in stations
Con: The BPO/BPC has to now be at the POS, putting it at risk

Build at a station:
Pro: The BPO is safer from wardec's and corp thiefs
Con: You have to pay the scaling cost (if any) if you are in an active industrial zone

Can't speak for capital construction, but It really doesnt seem like the end of the world people are making out to be



No one is going to put expensive BPOs in a low/null POS.

And with the inability to lockdown, corp theft is a real issue

So, the real con is the hassle of having to set up an alt corp, run a high sec large POS to do research and crank out BPCs. Then add the BPCs to regularly scheduled jump freighter runs.

Unnecessary grind with no game play value.



You cannot make us play stupid. You can only make us change our play style with unnecessary grind!


They need to reverse the decision to let you have the BPO in station. The change is NOT going to produce the intended game play risk/reward, and will only create pointless grind.


Right, but in the old rules you still had to pay for the cost of running the POS. Granted to more experienced pilots of larger scale and investment the cost is negligible. Now since it sounds like (from the reactions on the forums) you HAVE to use a pos for T2 BPO/BPC manufacturing. Sure, I can see how this is a pain.

To be honest I am holding my breath on this one until I can see how large the 'scaling costs' are. I know the tenative is 0 - 14% but there are a lot of stations to manufacture in EVE and now you have unlimited slots. For the people that have 1000 BPs, it could be possible they find a quiet place and can have dozens more running without having to manage an army of POS.

*shrug* just have to wait and see, but at least you know in advance that a change is coming
Gynosi
Galcom Alpha
#434 - 2014-04-15 19:45:55 UTC
What did you guys smoke??

If you dont want ppl to stop build anything about a cruiser rethink your save station placement idea.
Do you rly want some1 first copys a titan bpo 4 weeks to then be able to build "save" another 6 weeks? Wow so what you now added another step to build expensive stuff? And that slot whats missing on the ship copy cant copy parts. So i have to sub a 11th account or dualpay present accounts so i can compensate the 10 missing copy slots and build up a new copy cat? Wow you rly need subs dont you?

Btw capital parts; If you force ppl to do everything with copys in future this means 5run = 14-15h build time on researchd BPCs. So you force all chars who do the building to be present in Region / System 2 times a day to keep the lines busy.
HF to all random ppl who not doing it with alot of heavy industry alt chars who are present anway.

Another note on reinforced posses. Even there would be posses with BPOs inside getting reinforecd (0.0 or low esp) and you would give ppl the chance to empty the arrays like ship arrays or silos you want ppl to cancle their jobs to get their BPOs save in case the pos can not be saved? Dont get me wrong its prolly what to do but cancle lets say 40 lines on comp assembly arrays "in case it can not be defended" and lose few dozen billion isk in material just to be sure your BPOs dont get hurt? WTF?

Did any1 of DEVs / GMs who have those ideas ever moved a freighter fleet to jita to buy 5b units minerals moved it to a compression center compressed stuff moved somewhere to 00 rerefined move all the mins again to pos and the accutaly build something like 6.5k cap parts to then finish a titan? Im pretty sure there answer is no. You guys are so far of the real game ... no words for this.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#435 - 2014-04-15 19:46:27 UTC
Amber Solaire wrote:
theman428 wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
Correct me if I`m wrong

If more people decide to use stations for safety, won`t this slow down overall production,
thus making a lot of CCP`s great ideas the reverse of an improvement to Industry?



no it will just make it more expensive for those seeking slots



More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all

Which means the number of people doing it will go down, thus reducing cost to do so, which will increase the number of people doing it, etc.

It's simply supply and demand, the price will find an equilibrium and it will affect everyone equally (new and old alike)... and market prices will adjust accordingly for the finished goods.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Chanina
ASGARD HEAVY INDUSTRIES
#436 - 2014-04-15 19:47:13 UTC
theman428 wrote:
...

friend i was not responding to u.. please next time see who im quoting


...

theman428 wrote:
Chanina wrote:
Myxx wrote:

I'll grant you that theoretically, there "could" come a time where we can output bpcs fast enough in our production cycle to consider selling off some extra copies... but with the risk of putting the production bpc into a starbase during production, having a stockpile of comps, extra bpcs and such just "in case" will probably be taken care of first. I don't really see this as a worthwhile concern for you. The security of the production chain is infinitely more important than short term profits found in selling bpcs off.


I don't think you HAVE to put your BPCs into production at starbase. You currently can do it remotely, as do I with my bpcs at station. That goes away for both of us. But if you can now copy (just pulling some numbers) at the double rate than you can manufacture, you can increase your production output by just coping them on station and building them on station from those copies.
At the end of the day you may end up with more output than possible from manufacturing in station. Maybe it is less than producing remote on POS currently. And if you are currently producing at a pos, every material is already at risk. If you add a BPCs there that won't change that values much.



no if your producing from a pos u will have to have the BPO/BPC in the pos with the mats not from the station... after patch ofc

...

what did you just said? I give you a hint, it was post 419
here is the link
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#437 - 2014-04-15 19:48:24 UTC
Querns wrote:
I thought of a potential gotcha: Will POS assembly modules also have their slots removed? Will you be able to, e.g., run an infinite number of ammo jobs from a single ammo assembly array?

Yes. It'll cost you a fortune though (or something thereabouts — we have yet to see the cost scaling blog).

Really, the way to think of it for POS owners (also as a further response to an earlier question of “why do I have to pay for slots I already own?”) is that right now, you might cap out on fitting requirements and end up with, say 40 slots. With this change, you can ignore that cap and run 120 jobs in parallel, but it'll cost you. The ability to bypass the POS fitting limits seems to me like more than adequate reason to have to pay for the slots twice.
Slappy Andven
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#438 - 2014-04-15 19:49:07 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
You just need to store them at the pos, you don;t need to be at the pos, you cna keep them in one hanger that only you and your alts have access too.. so not much really changed.


You just have to scoop out your brain to think this is even remotely reasonable.

-- 

Slappy Andven

CEO Natural Born Killas
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#439 - 2014-04-15 19:49:30 UTC
Bad Bobby wrote:
Amber Solaire wrote:
More expense=less people can afford to do it=reduction of profits=no point trying to produce any more (by newer players)

That is not any improvement at all

Given how many stations there are out there, I doubt that any pricing problem couldn't be solved by moving a few jumps further away from the busy systems.


"The freighting I do is free" is just a variant of "the minerals I mine are free."

What this will do is change the system so that instead of there being one variable to consider--how close am I to a market hub?--there are two. As of this change, there will be a tension between the added cost of manufacturing close to market and the added cost of manufacturing far away from market.

The result will be rings of manufacturing around market hubs consisting of people who account for their logistics costs, and a bunch of essentially random noise consisting of people who don't and people who are serving local niche markets.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
theman428
Order .66.
Brothers of Tangra
#440 - 2014-04-15 19:51:42 UTC
Chanina wrote:
theman428 wrote:
...

friend i was not responding to u.. please next time see who im quoting


...

theman428 wrote:
Chanina wrote:
Myxx wrote:

I'll grant you that theoretically, there "could" come a time where we can output bpcs fast enough in our production cycle to consider selling off some extra copies... but with the risk of putting the production bpc into a starbase during production, having a stockpile of comps, extra bpcs and such just "in case" will probably be taken care of first. I don't really see this as a worthwhile concern for you. The security of the production chain is infinitely more important than short term profits found in selling bpcs off.


I don't think you HAVE to put your BPCs into production at starbase. You currently can do it remotely, as do I with my bpcs at station. That goes away for both of us. But if you can now copy (just pulling some numbers) at the double rate than you can manufacture, you can increase your production output by just coping them on station and building them on station from those copies.
At the end of the day you may end up with more output than possible from manufacturing in station. Maybe it is less than producing remote on POS currently. And if you are currently producing at a pos, every material is already at risk. If you add a BPCs there that won't change that values much.



no if your producing from a pos u will have to have the BPO/BPC in the pos with the mats not from the station... after patch ofc

...

what did you just said? I give you a hint, it was post 419
here is the link



my apologies i mis read it. i posted something similar to someone else and i thought u had quoted that one