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[Kronos] Pirate Faction Cruisers

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M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#361 - 2014-04-08 10:24:52 UTC
Phantasm looks cool, Ashimu is finally justifiable, Gilas will be a fleet doctrine immediately, death to all the damn Cynabals, whats left... Oh Vigi, yea it didn't change much which is fine by me.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#362 - 2014-04-08 10:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Stuff

Show us where the nasty vigilant touched you? You seem butt hurt about them.

As others have repeated countless times, and even CCP have said it themselves, it is the 90% webs which are the problem, nothing to do with the Vigilants fittings. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Edit- plus looking from your kill history, all you fly is T1 frigates and the occasional T1 cruiser. Do you really expect to have a good success rate going solo vs a pirate faction cruiser worth 20x the amount. Again, it seems you are yet another FW scrub thinking the game should be balanced around epic 1v1 frigate battles.

Naomi Anthar wrote:
I killed legion in dragoon solo - true story. Because it decided it bump me from gate - so i webbed/scrammed it and was orbiting it at 500m where it couldnt hit me. Legion pilot made huge mistake by closing to me , instead of using scorch to wear me down like it should lol. Does it make Legion bad ship ? Does dragoon have edge over legion ? The same edge most of ships have over serpentis ships - bad pilots. Because hull itself is just insanely strong in right hands.


Also the reason you managed to kill that legion is because the pilot was a complete dunce, and the fit was terrible beyond belief. The guy had clearly bought the account and had no knowledge about pvp. I just checked his fit on battleclinic.

Although good job for killing him, people like that don't deserve to fly good ships.

(Are you allowed to post kills on the forums still?)
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#363 - 2014-04-08 10:43:07 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Naomi Anthar wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:

18.2km?? the best you can fit is 15km


Now ... this is my last ... post. I got tired. If you would actually pvped once in your life. Or actually did even train thermodynamics to lvl 1. Then you would hear about so called mystic "overheating". How it works must be a true mystery to so accomplished PvPing legend like you. But well it actually does exist. What it does ? Noone knows. Some say it grants you 30% bonus to web range. Not sure if we should believe in rumors tho.

In case i would be right and you can web beyond 15km ... (of course as you know better than me we cannot) ... then i could be right actually that stabber does not wreck vigilants erry day.
But then i'm wrong. No single Vigilant webbed anything beyond 15km EVER.

1- watch you tongue, you tone appeal only one answer, and it is **** of

2- overheating, sure, but even with good skills, you can't keep it running forever

3- actually you better go fly a vigilant, then a stabber, it is a cake walk to avoid a vigilant web, even a overheated one, if you can't, l2p

go pvp elswhere than EFT, you will understand....maybe

oh and yeah, show me again how this will be a problem for the stabber, i mean, either the vigilant is disrupt, then why the hell are you still in his range

or he is scramm, then....why the hell are you still there?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#364 - 2014-04-08 10:45:11 UTC
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:
Stuff

Show us where the nasty vigilant touched you? You seem butt hurt about them.

As others have repeated countless times, and even CCP have said it themselves, it is the 90% webs which are the problem, nothing to do with the Vigilants fittings. You are barking up the wrong tree.

Edit- plus looking from your kill history, all you fly is T1 frigates and the occasional T1 cruiser. Do you really expect to have a good success rate going solo vs a pirate faction cruiser worth 20x the amount. Again, it seems you are yet another FW scrub thinking the game should be balanced around epic 1v1 frigate battles.


And while it's important that price is not a key balancing factor, it is important to understand that something which is much harder to get, more expensive, and more skill intensive to fly than a T1 cruiser, MUST be better than the comparable T1 cruiser, and/or it must be able to fill a niche that the T1 cruiser cannot, otherwise the faction ship is quite literally useless.

As has been the case with the Phantasm for so. very. long.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sgt EVE
Garage Bagage
#365 - 2014-04-08 10:47:10 UTC
NetheranE wrote:
Sgt EVE wrote:
[quote=Chris Winter]
*snipped*

Vigilant:

Gallente Cruiser: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage

Minmatar Cruiser: 7,5% bonus to Stasis Webifier range and effectivness

Role bonus: 100% bonus to Heavy Drone hitpoints and damage

lolwut

You cant be serious right? Shocked



why not ? tell me whats wrong with this
keep in mind that there are no slots left to support the 2 heavy drones.
otherwise you lose blaster damage ( which already is 25% reduced )
to use the heavy drones you have to catch your enemy first because they are too slow
there is no 50% fallof any more so the combined damage of blaster and drones only starts at 3000m

this would make the serpentis the weapon platform they always meant to be
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#366 - 2014-04-08 10:48:27 UTC
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Which of these do you think would make a better cynabal rebalance?

Leave it the way it is?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
King Fu Hostile
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#367 - 2014-04-08 10:59:19 UTC
Naomi Anthar wrote:

And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness.


Yet you don't actually fly it
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#368 - 2014-04-08 11:05:41 UTC
King Fu Hostile wrote:
Naomi Anthar wrote:

And you know what ? I don't even mind if vigilant stays completly how it is now ... i mind other thing - that people like you think it's not broken op. Because at the end of the day - i can just fly my own vigilant and enjoy broken opness.


Yet you don't actually fly it

Yes, she has commented in every pirate faction thread asking for nerfs, or to keep the status quo, yet only appears to fly t1 frigates and the occasional t1 cruiser in FW.
Cardano Firesnake
Fire Bullet Inc
#369 - 2014-04-08 11:08:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Cardano Firesnake
PHANTASM For the moment I have no idea how this thing will be even if it seems pretty cool

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 4H(-1), 6M, 5L(+2); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG(-35), 380 CPU(-45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2700(+266) / 2175 / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1800(+105) / 495000 (+3750) / 3.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 228(+64) / .62(-.06) / 9600000 / 8.25s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 59km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 120(-10)

========================================================================================

ASHIMMU The idea is to web your target to arrive at nos range? perharps it works...

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
15% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer effectiveness

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Stasis Webifier range (was 10% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness)

Role Bonus:
100% bonus to Medium Energy Turret Damage
note: Energy Vampires fitted to this ship will drain targeted ship's capacitor regardless of your own capacitor level


Slot layout: 5H(-1), 4M, 6L(+1); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1220 PWG(-200), 350 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2290(-38) / 2950(+325) / 2325
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1850(+20) / 530000(-7500) / 3.49
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 208(+33) / 3.6 / 11010000 / 5.01s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 40(+30) / 40(+30)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km(+10km) / 340 / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 19
Signature radius: 130

========================================================================================

GILA The drones need to be able to apply the damages..

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
12% to drones max speed (including orbit speed)

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to all shield resistances

Role Bonus:
300% bonus to medium drone damage and hitpoints (was 50% bonus to Light Missile and Rocket max velocity)


Slot layout: 5H, 6M, 4L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers(+1)
Fittings: 670 PWG(+40), 400 CPU(+50)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 3200(+12) / 2200(-125) / 2490
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1400(+25) / 530000 (-1250) / 2.85
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 195(+31) / .66 / 9600000 / 8.78s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 30/90
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 58km (+3km) / 285 / 7
Sensor strength: 22
Signature radius: 145(-5)

========================================================================================

VIGILANT Reduce a bit the power of the web, Give more damage application...

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
12% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
7,5% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness

Role Bonus:
80% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage


Slot layout: 5H, 4M, 6L; 5 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1150 PWG(-50), 360 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2175 / 2500(+175) / 2625
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1545 / 490000 (-1250) / 3.15
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 242(+36) / .48 / 9830000 / 6.54s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 49km(+14km) / 300 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 130

========================================================================================

CYNABAL Don't nerf the fitting possibilities

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff

Minmatar Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage

Role Bonus:
25% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire


Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 1020 PWG(-80), 350 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2330 / 2300(-25) / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1415 / 490000(-1250) / 2.88
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 263(+6) / .45(-.0045) / 9047000(+200000) / 5.64s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 48km(+3km) / 390(-33) / 7
Sensor strength: 18(+2)
Signature radius: 115(+5)

Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#370 - 2014-04-08 11:08:35 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
This... is not looking good for the Rattlesnake.



I'm pretty confident it'll get the bonus to sentries too. The Domi will have the niche of flexibility, with the range and tracking bonuses and the ability to use bonused light drones, while the Rattler will go down the pure DPS route.

I disagree about the sentries. Two bonused heavies and the missile velocity bonus swapped to a kin/therm damage means the Rattlesnake is going down the road of "short" range brawler. (Short as in greatly reduced damage projection.)



I'm not convinced. Forcing the Rattler into that role of short-ranged brawler only would be too limiting for it and would make a poor ship. Your initial comment above shows that you agree. Hence, the obvious solution is for the damage bonus to also apply to sentries.

While CCP may well be wary of null Rattler fleets dropping sentries, the limited supply of Rattlesnake hulls should prevent that from being a significant thing. Someone mentioned a possible heavy drone MWD speed bonus, but this looks entirely arbitrary, being absent on the smaller hulls, counter to the stated desire to streamline the bonuses.

Bet you a million ISK that the Rattler gets a damage bonus to sentries as well as heavies? P
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#371 - 2014-04-08 11:11:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
NetheranE wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
How disassociated and out-of-touch do you have to be to propose a nerf to the Cynabal? Strike 1: Rapid launchers… Strike 2: The Nestor. Strike 3: The pending Rattlesnake, Machariel and Vindicator nerf.


Which of these do you think would make a better cynabal rebalance?

1. Make it a big dramiel with the same bonuses to medium turrets, dropping a turret hardpoint to compensate for dps and dmg application. Add 2 launcher slots, increase agility, +25 drone space.

2. Go with a mwd-bloom reduction bonus on the order of 15-20%. Have the same setup as before with the guns and role bonus, but forgo tracking bonus and extra drones.

Neither, the Cyna should be an auto ship, period.

We have plenty of drone shitting ships, we need something else.
Why not make it some ridiculous hybrid of the Muninn and Vaga, being able to use arties or autos well, and with the ability to tank either armor or shield, and be an extremely versatile ship in its fitting capacity?

...Oh wait, it already is that.
:CCPRISE:


Did I say that it should get anything other than projectile bonuses? Did I mention it needing an optimal range increase instead of the falloff, that it needed extra grid to fit arty that has no place on it, and belongs on the Muninn? Did I stutter or gloss over any particular point?

Drones are good for cruiser sized kite ships because the help chew up and spit out the smaller frigates that are fast enough to kite them. This is integral to how well they function, and is why many minmatar ships INCLUDING THE MUNINN AND VAGABOND have full-sized drone bays.
The function of having a full flight of medium drones on the cynabal is for flexibility's sake because it's supposed to have more options over its t1 and t2 counterparts.

"Why not make it some ridiculous hybrid of the Muninn and Vaga, being able to use arties or autos well, and with the ability to tank either armor or shield, and be an extremely versatile ship in its fitting capacity?

...Oh wait, it already is that."

Yes, yes it is; thank you Captain Obvious. And it does its role worse than either of those, which can kick its ass in multiple ways because they are t2 and designed for specific roles. Part of the ongoing popularity with Angel Cartel ships as well as why people are getting upset, in case you haven't noticed, is because its focus IS versatility. That's why people love it. it has options that its competitors do not. And nerfing its power grid so heavily removes one of those options as well as sacrificing others by using up slots for fitting, even if it's not a very good one.
I wouldn't be caught dead flying an arty cynabal. But it works for some people, and you can fit it. Just don't expect it to tank like the vagabond, be designed around arty like the muninn, or have the cap stability of either one. It's not them, but it can be changed to come a little closer for what you need it to be. That's what faction's about; having more options.
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#372 - 2014-04-08 11:13:42 UTC
Sooo, Gila w/ triple dda would have approx. 600dps from hammerheads, maybe another 250 from hams?
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#373 - 2014-04-08 11:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damage buff the phantasm is getting. It didn't drop any guns. Love it love it. <3
The damage was not nerfed, look at the newly enhanced role bonus.

Edit: misread the post, though it's not being buffed either by my math:
3*2.5 = 7.5 effective turrets
Vs
3*2*1.25 = 7.5 effective turrets


They rolled the 5% damage per level bonus where the AB is now on top of the original 100% dmg bonus, and added 25% more damage on top of that without removing any guns for free without any offset. It's a buff.

Learn to do maths.

Learn to read:
PHANTASM

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 4H(-1), 6M, 5L(+2); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG(-35), 380 CPU(-45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2700(+266) / 2175 / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1800(+105) / 495000 (+3750) / 3.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 228(+64) / .62(-.06) / 9600000 / 8.25s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 59km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 120(-10)

Those bits I so nicely highlighted for you are what I'm talking about. That's a FREE no strings-attached 25% damage buff. They rolled the 5% per level damage that was there before into the role bonus, and stacked another 25% damage bonus on top of that for a grand total of 150%. No guns dropped, no drones dropped. That's a damage buff. It's also not a typo because the did the EXACT SAME THING to the Succubus:

SUCCUBUS

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Small Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Small Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 3H(-1), 4M, 3L(+1); 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 44 PWG(-14), 170 CPU(-5)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 650(+41) / 550(+6) / 540(+23)
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 450(+15) / 210000 (-24375) / 2.14 (+.09)
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 340(+53) / 3.5(-.35) / 965000 / 4.68s(-.4)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 32km / 650 / 5
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 33(-2)
Ix Method
Doomheim
#374 - 2014-04-08 11:26:45 UTC
TEARS!

Stay the course beloved Devs, this needs to be done Smile

Travelling at the speed of love.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#375 - 2014-04-08 11:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
Ideas:

Change the Vigilant's web strength bonus to a point/scram range bonus. This solves the problem of the Vigilant's web bonus being a poor compliment to the ship's other attributes: the web was useless for kiting fits due to its lack of range and mutually-exclusive relationship with a shield tank, useless for brawling because medium blasters don't need the help of a strength-bonused web to hit small targets (unlike on the Vindicator, where the web bonus makes for a huge difference in damage application vs a 60% web), and not particularly useful for pure web support either (Daredevils are better for gatecamps because they lock/approach faster, making them much better for preventing ships from burning back to gates; range-bonused webbing ships are better for skirmishing because being able to stay at arms' length from your enemy is much more valuable in a skirmish than slowing one particular ship down to a greater degree).

Give the 90% web bonus to the Ashimmu, where it would be a better fit both with the pirate faction lore (immobilizing ships to take captives) and the ship's bonus to medium neut amount (which necessitates being within web range anyway).

Stop assigning bonuses to entire lines of ships and expecting those combinations of bonuses to work at every ship size. Ship size has a direct impact on what sorts of combat strategies are and aren't viable, and different sizes require different synergies. The Vindicator/Vigilant or Bhaalgorn/Ashimmu make perfect examples: the 90% web that's an absolute game-changer for the Vindicator's damage application when compared to the effects of an un-bonused web has little effect when wielded by a Vigilant due to the fact that the Vigilant doesn't need the target to be slowed to the same degree in order to hit it. The web-range bonus that synergizes so usefully with the 30km, battleship neuts on the Bhaalgorn will be largely useless on the Ashimmu, which needs to close to within un-bonused web range to activate it's NOS anyway. Each ship needs a set of bonuses that will be useful for that particular hull. If those bonuses fit into a sort of wider, general design philosophy, that's fine. What's not fine is applying the same bonuses to every one of a particular faction's hulls and hoping the resulting ships will all be useful.


Further Vigilant changes: reduce turret count by one and increase damage bonus to offset the turret loss, giving the Vigilant the utility high-slot that every other pirate cruiser has. Add some scan resolution, because the Vigilant's scan res is pretty ****-poor.

Finally, I'm completely unconvinced that any kind of nerf is desirable for the Cynabal: it's a ship that already struggles to measure up to other ships in just about any imagined role. Outside of dual-prop or 100mn AB gimmick brawling fits, it's only advantages over the cheaper Vagabond are agility and scan resolution, one of which you're nerfing for no apparent reason (The Vaga's advantages: speed, damage application, resists, cap stability-- by a huge margin-- and price). When considering kiting cruisers in general, both the Cynabal and the Vagabond have become quite lackluster due to their atrocious mid-range damage application: I've personally found the Navy Omen, Deimos, Proteus, Legion, and even the Stratios to be better options, due to the fact that they can actually do more than 250 dps from outside overheated web range.

Speaking of the Stratios, if the Cynabal needs a nerf, how do you explain the fact that the Stratios is as-good or better than a Cynabal as a shield-tanked kiting ship in literally every metric other than top speed... while fitting a covert ops cloak?

http://i.imgur.com/tUF9aC7.jpg

Both ships have a flight of Valkyrie IIs out. Don't forget that if you look at kiting ranges (20-30km), the Cynabal's applied damage drops by 100dps, while the Stratios' stays exactly the same.

Given that the Stratios does the Cynabal's job just as well as the Cynabal while also having a covert ops cloak, I find it difficult to take the notion that the Cynabal needs a nerf seriously. If you really think that EVE needs to be spared from the roving masses of arty and 100mn AB Cynabals that are destroying the game, then sure, nerf the Cynabal. Otherwise please just leave it alone and let it die a quiet death of disuse without suffering the indignity of being targeted for 2014's most hilariously-unnecessary nerf. I'm an ardent PvPer and have had a Cynabal in my arsenal for years... I can't remember the last time I flew one regularly... it must have been about two years ago. Since then, many ships have surpassed it in its original role, and the one role it still performs acceptably is a little-used gimmick role. Just leave the poor thing be.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#376 - 2014-04-08 11:30:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Catherine Laartii
Mr Floydy wrote:
[quote=Catherine Laartii]-The Vigilant, and all the other Serpentis ships for that matter, should get the AB bonus you're currently proposing with Sansha and have it swapped out with the falloff bonus, since they generally fight at spitting distance anyway./quote]

90% webs, very high damage for the class and an AB bonus? That's a terrible terrible idea.

Whilst I'm not going to suggest the current Vigilant powergrid changes are great, that combo would be massively ********.


Would you mind tell me why it's utter crap, considering the speed bonus to the AB means that it would end up being pretty much near the same damn m/s than with a mwd? That, and the fact that unlike the mwd you can still move under scram with the AB going, which is just a bit more important in that close range of a fight than a few extra hundred or a thousand or so meters of falloff?

Bonuses to sig, capacitor, and the negligable difference in speed you would have noticed if you had taken the time to ACTUALLY run the stats through a fitting tool far outweigh any potential downsides.

EDIT: In case I misread your bleeped out word and you were talking about it being too OP with that (context is good which is why I talk a lot), then I would like to say that the PG nerf is more than appropriate, and thought that it was fine anyway with that. Vigi needed a nerf; it does far too much well-applied damage within tackle range than any of the others. The AB idea I thought was good because even with a nerf to pg and range, it would be be roughly around the same speed, but have much better cap and not have to worry about getting its mwd turned off. However, its agility would be a bit worse off with AB so it would compensate by being more vulnerable to kiting.

With that said, I can say I am confused by your response for multiple reasons. Please explain to me exactly about what you're objecting to.
Laiannah Sahireen
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#377 - 2014-04-08 11:38:45 UTC
I'm really not convinced by the new Ashimmu. Why would you remove a utility high on a neut boat that only has 3 utility slots to begin with? And coupled with the removal of that chunk of powergrid, it's going to be pretty difficult to even drop a laser to still fit 3 neuts without resorting to powergrid rigs (and therefore losing tank).

Honestly, the Ashimmu would have been great with just a decent speed buff, the web range bonus and an extra mid slot for some extra webbing goodness.

Maybe a dev can explain the reasoning behind this? I just don't see how we're supposed to use the ashimmu as an effective neut boat AND make use of that fun NOS role bonus with this nerfed slot layout...
Xavier Azabu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#378 - 2014-04-08 11:42:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Azabu
Naomi Anthar wrote:
seth Hendar wrote:

18.2km?? the best you can fit is 15km


Now ... this is my last ... post. I got tired. If you would actually pvped once in your life. Or actually did even train thermodynamics to lvl 1. Then you would hear about so called mystic "overheating". How it works must be a true mystery to so accomplished PvPing legend like you. But well it actually does exist. What it does ? Noone knows. Some say it grants you 30% bonus to web range. Not sure if we should believe in rumors tho.

In case i would be right and you can web beyond 15km ... (of course as you know better than me we cannot) ... then i could be right actually that stabber does not wreck vigilants erry day.
But then i'm wrong. No single Vigilant webbed anything beyond 15km EVER.


Why do you detest the Vigilant so much?

In order to get the DPS that you keep talking about, its tank drops a bit. It doesn't have the resists of an AHAC, the tank or utility of a T3... etc., I just want the Vigilant to have more use for its isk cost. I'm a fan of the web bonus. If you hate webs, try avoiding a horde of AFs with webs, Huginns, Lokis, or double-webbed T1 cruisers. They can web you while kiting. Webs are webs.. but you're putting your ship into the danger zone with the Vigilant as-is and risking a hefty investment even when you get that web off. With the other ships, you provide utility to a fleet (hence people putting a Huginn or two in a kiting fleet). With the Vigilant, you're suiciding into a fleet to get that bonus off. And with the scan bonus so low on the Vigilant, it doesn't have the gate-camping power of the Rapier or Daredevil.

If anything I agree with others who suggest that the Vigilant would work with an AB bonus or something rather than the Falloff bonus. It's a blaster boat... unless it is tweaked otherwise.

Viribus wrote:
Hey remember when you guys introduced tier 3 BCs and no one ever saw Cynabals again? Then all those t1 cruiser buffs, navy cruiser buffs, and HAC buffs? Good thing the Cynabal's getting a nerf, it's such a terrifying and viable ship currently (this is sarcasm)


Your sarcasm is right on.
I've flown on some Cynabal fleets with good results - killed a bunch of cheaper stuff usually or kited around. But if your Cynabal gang gets caught by some of that cheaper stuff the killboard evens up quickly.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#379 - 2014-04-08 11:55:20 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Ideas:

Change the Vigilant's web strength bonus to a point/scram range bonus. This solves the problem of the Vigilant's web bonus being a poor compliment to the ship's other attributes: the web was useless for kiting fits


serp ships are supposed to be special actually-good blaster brawlers. I think it's dumb that they can kite. also, please get good, 90% web is crazy broken for kiting.
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#380 - 2014-04-08 11:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Medalyn Isis
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Medalyn Isis wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Catherine Laartii wrote:
I love how most everyone here has completely glossed over talking about the ninja'd 25% damage buff the phantasm is getting. It didn't drop any guns. Love it love it. <3
The damage was not nerfed, look at the newly enhanced role bonus.

Edit: misread the post, though it's not being buffed either by my math:
3*2.5 = 7.5 effective turrets
Vs
3*2*1.25 = 7.5 effective turrets


They rolled the 5% damage per level bonus where the AB is now on top of the original 100% dmg bonus, and added 25% more damage on top of that without removing any guns for free without any offset. It's a buff.

Learn to do maths.

Learn to read:
PHANTASM

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
7.5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret tracking speed

Caldari Cruiser Bonus:
20% bonus to Afterburner velocity bonus (was 5% energy turret damage)

Role Bonus:
150% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage (was 100% energy turret damage)


Slot layout: 4H(-1), 6M, 5L(+2); 3 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 890 PWG(-35), 380 CPU(-45)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 2700(+266) / 2175 / 2065
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 1800(+105) / 495000 (+3750) / 3.5
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 228(+64) / .62(-.06) / 9600000 / 8.25s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 15
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 59km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 120(-10)

Those bits I so nicely highlighted for you are what I'm talking about. That's a FREE no strings-attached 25% damage buff. They rolled the 5% per level damage that was there before into the role bonus, and stacked another 25% damage bonus on top of that for a grand total of 150%. No guns dropped, no drones dropped. That's a damage buff. It's also not a typo because the did the EXACT SAME THING to the Succubus:

You are pretty dense aren't you. Someone even helpfully laid out the maths for you which I quoted in the previous post. I think you should stay away from balance discussion as you are clearly a liability, and your incessant babbling on these forums is beginning to hurt my eyes,