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You make it sound like jump freighter use is free. It's not. Aside from fuel costs, you have to factor in the inevitable losses that follow these big expensive targets. All those costs get wrapped up together when moving these kinds of quantities back and forth.



[Monty Python voice] Oh there you go, bringing class into it again! [/Monty Python voice]

None of this post is particularly relevant.

Having station compression allows everyone to compress the ore that they mine. That's the whole point. I'm not particularly concerned about people selling uncompressed ore on the market; I am more concerned about individual miners. We want individual miners, without the support of a POS or a corporation, to be able to actually participate in the compressed ore economy, and to be able to move their ore to market without having to make 25 times as many trips. It benefits both them and us; they don't have to run ore to a POS for hours just to make it movable; we get the compressed ore we want for nullsec production.

The whole "bot" thing was just to illustrate that there would be no meaningful profession based around acquiring uncompressed ore and compressing it; the nature of the work makes it extremely bot-friendly. It's better to lower the bar to compression completely rather than give that sort of thing a foothold.

Do you really want new miners to sit in NPC corps? I cannot think of anything more detrimental to new player retention than sitting in the NPC noob corp doing everything alone.

Again, the miners won't be making 25 trips back and forth between POS and station. If they have any sense at all, they will haul the ore directly to the POS from the mining site and compress it there prior to hauling it to a major market hub or local station for courier contracting.

Requiring them to join a corp and use a POS will encourage meaningful player-driven sandbox-style interaction within the game universe instead of making them reliant on NPC services.

Eve is best played with other people. Not by sitting in station flipping through NPC chat dialog boxes in a themepark-based setting.

I'm not a miner, so serious questions:

Do miners only mine in one system? Are we expecting miners to have a PoS in all systems they mine in?

There is no single answer to that.
If it s a single miner or a small corp with several alts , then yes they ll stay in one sys , unless they r a fully dedicated miners.

Larger corps with half a dozen players or more with all their alt, would chew thru belts fast, and they would move around a constellation looking for the fattest belts with rarer ore.

In short, a dedicated miner would not stay in one system

I'm not a dedicated miner, but when I do I am more like the sort of miner Querns is talking about: solo or with one alt.

Barges discourage movement. When I do move to a new place, I hop in a MWD attack frigate and set up bookmarks in the belts and safes. The bookmarks are necessary because it is faster to warp to a nearby planet and then warp back to a bookmark in the same belt than it is to slowboat there, and I like to be able to choose my ores. (Larger ops will simply start at one end of a belt and slowboat across the length, devouring everything, then move to the next belt.) The more ore you can pile into one place at once, the less hauling you have to do, and the easier it is to click twice and get a huge pile of minerals (or now, compressed ore) in saleable or usable quantities.

Roaming in a barge is like roaming in a battlecruiser, except that most battlecruisers will not cap themselves out trying to warp across a large system like a Retriever will. I have not done it since the release of the Venture.

The POS array will mean that it is somewhat less painful for me to set up shop in a system with no station, at least if I plan to stay for a little while.

This is exactly the use case for the POS compression array that I am suggesting. With station compression, this use case would still exist.

Good question and would be pretty helpful tbh

Why does everyone instantly assume I am talking about people in NPC corps? I have never mentioned them. Furthermore, joining a corporation is not a panacea for acquiring compression; a POS does not sprout up the moment you create a new corporation.



Please. Wardecs are only one of many ways to die in highsec. If anything, wardecs are the most avoidable danger. You get a polite 24 hour notice to pull up your POSes, herd everyone into a new corporation, and dissolve the old one.



Last I checked, compressed veldspar only requires 100 units to make. I don't think this volume of ore is out of reach of any miner, not even the ones mining in newbie frigates. Even compressing a humble portion of ore such as this provides the miner a much more convenient way to move his wares to the market hub where he can get the best price.


Um, yes, I live in nullsec. Isn't it obvious by my alliance?

Here's the thing. Currently, any miner with a minimum of reprocessing skills can reduce their ore into a more transportable form by refining it into minerals. After the change, the barrier to refining is not only significantly increased skillwise, it is suboptimal to even refine at all without access to superior reprocessing efficiency facilities. This severely hampers the ability for a miner to move his wares wherever he wishes.

I understand that creating a new profession that rewards skill training, investment, and connections is good. Hell, this is part of why I've been championing these changes; reprocessing is being made into a profession instead of a speed bump. However, compression is different. Since casual refining has been severely discouraged due to the proposed changes, miners lacking the wherewithal or the connections to affect compression via POS or Rorqual are now burdened with the bulk of their uncompressed ore and can do nothing but accept that they will have to haul 66 times more volume of goods, refine their wares at a severe disadvantage, or sell their wares at the station they mine in. This represents a significant quality of life decrease for people who are, frankly, already at the ragged edge of retention. Allowing them the ability to reduce their hauling needs by keeping the barrier to compression low is just good sense.

@Querns

You keep going back to situations where a lone wolf miner with large volumes of ore (for him) has fewer options and is disadvantaged in other ways compared to people we organize.

Your replies assume, the situation is permanent and that miner has no option but to sit there doing the same thing he did before the changes and be forever disadvantaged.

It seems you replied to statements you did not understand and you even made several false presentations. You dismiss my arguments about being part of a corporation as if that alone would bring magic access to compression without any effort.

* You misrepresent that due to 24h notification, the POS driven PvP risk in high sec is a absurd. I can see this as trolling or plain ignorance, but will reply with a few points:

1. It is not just the POS, which ** under ideal circumstances ** you can remove and rebuild later. Your mining fleet is at risk just the same and jumping between corporations has its limits these days.

2. While removing the POS, other corporations can simply take the free spot..no way you get that back without a fight.

3. Corp standing is not static, you might been able to anchor a pos at one time, but a few new member in your corp that draw the average down will undo that.